cheapest summonable thug

[WingedDog]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

Actually they don't seem to do fire damage, they kill abysians just fine for example, shackles them too if they don't kill.

Yes, you are right, just tested it, they really do kill fire immune units.

Originally Posted by Fantomen

With a strength bonus of 10, you add 10 range and damage to each shot. Up to 40 more damage per turn isn't a waste of gems to me. With each shot doing 27 damage you punch through most armour easily, it's a whole other ballpark than 17.

This is not an RPG, where your "pet" must have the best equipment and no empty slots - this is a wargame and you need to get maximum efficiency for minimal cost. Yes, bola would have a better range, yes it would hit opponent harder, but it is still a missile weapon and could be deflected by a shield, or countered by air shield.
Besides very next turn same abysians could cast Fire Storm, or, if enemy has strong death - darkness with hordes of undead, or airdrop few thugs, or SC with Solar Brilliance, etc. Result the same: commanders with fire bolas end up dead, because they are expendable units, and doubling the cost of expendable unit is a waste of gems.

Baalz had written a very good guide about choosing the right equipment for thugs: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41970
I recomend you to read it if you didn't - it really helped me at some point of understanding the game.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by WingedDog

This is not an RPG, where your "pet" must have the best equipment and no empty slots - this is a wargame and you need to get maximum efficiency for minimal cost. Yes, bola would have a better range, yes it would hit opponent harder, but it is still a missile weapon and could be deflected by a shield, or countered by air shield.
Besides very next turn same abysians could cast Fire Storm, or, if enemy has strong death - darkness with hordes of undead, or airdrop few thugs, or SC with Solar Brilliance, etc. Result the same: commanders with fire bolas end up dead, because they are expendable units, and doubling the cost of expendable unit is a waste of gems.

Baalz had written a very good guide about choosing the right equipment for thugs: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41970
I recomend you to read it if you didn't - it really helped me at some point of understanding the game.

Gee, I'm not misunderstanding the nature of the game. I have read Baalz thugging guide and I understand those points very well. I don't advocate it because it is some favourite hangup of mine, I do it because I happened to found it very effective early on in some MP games as EA Agartha(with Ancient lords) and Machaka(sleepers). I say a little strength bonus is often what makes the bolas worth it, simple as that.

[Mysterio]

Originally Posted by WingedDog

Boots of quickness (any quickness spells/blesses in general) do allow to cast item spell twice, but do not allow to fire ranged weapon twice.

Are you saying a commander equipped with a Bow of Accuracy and Boots of Quickness will not fire twice in a single turn? I could have sworn I saw one of the commanders in the hero army (random event) doing just that.

[militarist]

Even with forge of ancients?
As for bolas - it's treated as a ranged weapon, not a wand?
If boots can turn 4 shots to 8 it doesn't sound bad.

[militarist]

Does "flaming arrows" spell work with slings, javelins and fire bola item? Fire bola spam would be interesting if it's affected by flame arrows.

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by militarist

Does "flaming arrows" spell work with slings, javelins and fire bola item? Fire bola spam would be interesting if it's affected by flame arrows.

slings and javelins, definitely yes. fire bolas, no idea, never tested, but I don't see a reason why it shouldn't, unless flaming arrows doesn't work with items.

[Sombre]

No, it doesn't work with it.

Flaming arrows only works with a set number of defined weapons. That isn't one of them. Nothing dynamic or rule based about it.

[rdonj]

For example, it works with the bow of war. It does not, however, work with blowpipes. Here is the full list of fiery ranged weapons (note that the bow of war is the only magic item listed as having a specific fiery form):

Fire Arbalest
Fire Bola
Fire Boulder
Fire Boulder
Fire Bow of War
Fire Chakram
Fire Composite Bow
Fire Crossbow
Fire Flare
Fire Javelin
Fire Long Bow
Fire Short Bow
Fire Shuriken
Fire Sling
Fire Small Bow

For this and other interesting information, such as what all units are considered to be made of stone for example, DOWNLOAD EDI'S DATABASE. No one can tell you all of this stuff off the top of their head, but the database can!

[chrispedersen]

Is that small bow true? I thought consensus was it didn't work!

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Is that small bow true? I thought consensus was it didn't work!

I didn't test it to make sure, but I seem to recall using flaming arrows with small bow-equipped skinks in a test or an mp game in which it worked. Since that would easily more than double their potential effective damage, it's not a bad direction to go. It should work though.

It should be noted that I listed fire flare as a ranged weapon... it is not. It is a melee attack used by abysian salamanders, I believe. I just failed to remove it from the list when copy/pasting from the database.