maximum range vs weapon accuracy; warhead vs penetration

[DRG]

Originally Posted by raginis

I can tell you that these two options simply do not appear on that screen. The applications themselves are in the game folder and are usable, but they just don't appear on the utilities screen which I accessed by starting the game options application.
I am using the v11.01-DL version of the game.

That's because you are using the 2017 version of the game and those were added in 2018

[Mobhack]

We are not allowed to tell you anything much about the original SSI formulae due to the NDA with them.

Accuracy is very roughly where a 50% to-hit is expected on a default sized target, when the weapon is ranged in. But it is only one factor.

So a weapon with range 12 and ACC 3 isn't that accurate, one with the same range and acc of 10 is going to be more accurate over its range band.

Other factors come into play like the fire control and range finder, experience, target movement, target size, firer suppression, firer movement, current visibility, stabiliser etc. And ATGM are completely different from guns..

Most guns need 3 shots at the target to be ranged in fully, that changes with autocannons and infantry small arms which tend to range faster, and more specifically laser (>20 ranged RF) which only need a 2-shot sequence to range in if within range. Range finders can help at 2Xrange, and more if high FC, but inside basic range is the best.

Fire control mitigates targets movement and your own, and can also act a bit like a plus factor to your range finder.

The targeting screen gives you a "gunner's guesstimate" of the hit chance for the slot 1 weapon. Use the T key to bring that screen up and cycle through the targets with the N and P keys. the actual shot may of course differ form the gunners guesstimate - as the T key dialogue doesn't run the chance dice. Set yourself up a "firing range" test scenario with targets and firer dotted about the place (with snipers alongside the enemy tanks, to ensure they are spotted at range, if needed). Then see what the "first shot" chances are reported, then maybe fire at a target, and if the firer survives, check the new hit chance (allowing for any suppression etc). You may want to pick some sort of support AFV with only an MG to stop the range targets firing back, or edit out the weapons using the scenario design tools.

The main way to determine when its worth firing at things though is fom experience - just like real troops you will tend to get to know what is worth the shot, and what is not after some time playing.

What you will not ever see is some sort of SPI board-game "shift table" with about a dozen results depending on 2D6 that can neatly be tabulated. That is because the to-hit code like all other code is multiple functions that can call other subroutines which can call other subroutines, so the result you get will depend on multiple chance rolls - one shot may go down a particular rabbit hole, another may not. The targeting screen makes no chance rolls, so doesn't take any of the rabbit holes that chance brings into account (like applying any leader skill value modifiers for a nearby (say) company HQ).

So there really is no way to ever produce a To-hit "table", or even a utility that operates like the armour calculator. The armour calculator "fires" 1000 sample shots at each range "bucket" and only uses a simplified subset of the AP calculation in any case, there is no "going down the critical hit" path for example. A to-hit calculator would need far too many variables to calculate sensibly, whereas the penetration calculator is focussed on a few variables.

[raginis]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

The targeting screen makes no chance rolls, so doesn't take any of the rabbit holes that chance brings into account (like applying any leader skill value modifiers for a nearby (say) company HQ).

Can the nearby company HQ ever provide a *negative* modifier, if their skills are lower than the subordinate unit? If yes, then I'll have to make sure my company HQ units either get experience and improve, or keep them well away from the front lines.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by raginis

Can the nearby company HQ ever provide a *negative* modifier, if their skills are lower than the subordinate unit? If yes, then I'll have to make sure my company HQ units either get experience and improve, or keep them well away from the front lines.

Any leader in the unit's command chain can "coach" subordinates to hit, never negatively. So tank A may get a little boost (not much) on rare occasions when the platoon, company or battle group HQ is within 3 hexes or so. If all 3 were close by, he has 3 "bosses" who could do that.

But it is probably not worth going all OCD on putting the HQs (other than maybe the platoon) all bunched up at the front just for a rare 1-3% or so lift in hit%.

[zovs66]

The main way to determine when its worth firing at things though is from experience - just like real troops you will tend to get to know what is worth the shot, and what is not after some time playing.

This is the gospel truth, when I am running my tanks (especially in a campaign), any ATGs that shoot at the tanks are priority 1 to kill. For my infantry guys any MG's are priority number 1 to kill. Otherwise bad things happens to my guys.


During one of my Eastern Front playtests (see my scenario conversions in the WW2 thread) I gave the AI some 75 ATG and two of them took out 9 T-34's before I could suppress and kill them. I did tweak the Experience up on the Gun 0 guy to help the AI a bit and it works as designed. The human will have to outsmart the AI in a few of those ones...