game option/old age

[Sombre]

I agree on the content front. I'm really not fussed about the devs adding new nations and whatnot. It isn't like there's a shortage of those available on the modding forum and we're still seeing a boom there.

So for me the order of priority would be

1. Bug fixes
2. GUI and control improvements
3. AI improvements, or ability to mod AI
4. Other innovations and preference tweaks
5. Mod commands
6. Balance tweaks (can be modded already)
7. New Content, nations etc

[llamabeast]

Well those priorities are fair enough Graeme and Sombre, and I can see where you're coming from - but you shouldn't assume that everyone feels the same way (not that you said you were, of course). Personally I'm also very excited by the new content, and am really looking forward to it.

I think it's important to remember that the devs have no obligation to produce any more patches for the game. Most commercial games have a couple of bug fix patches, if that, and then move on, sometimes leaving the game in quite a bad state. We've already got extremely good value for what we paid, and really the only reason the devs should carry on working on dominions is for fun, because they enjoy it. So while it's worthwhile reminding the devs of the things that would be it would be really helpful for us if they worked on, I think we also shouldn't fail to show our appreciation and enthusiasm for all the work they are doing. If they're producing new content, then I for one am happy, because it's content we wouldn't otherwise have got, and hopefully they're enjoying it.

[Edi]

I acknowledge the points made and I do see where you are coming from. I even agree with a lot of them.

As far as fire nations go, I do not actually remember there having been any purely fire nations in Dom2 the same way there were pure air or astral or death nations. Marignon was perhaps the only one that would qualify for that. Most nations with Fire combined it with something else, such as Abysia with Astral and Blood, Machaka with Earth and Death and so forth. So, the only pure fire nation was...Marignon. And even they had Astral.

Much the same holds true for Dom3, where only EA Abysia and MA MArignon can be considered pure fire nations and Marignon does have astral while EA Abysia does not have too much blood. It is a bless nation, though. I do agree about Ulm without reservation, though, even though I have always like it even as it is.

If we take Sombre's list, which is rather more finely grained and sensible compared to the simplified 3-point list I posted earlier, we can get a more sensible discussion. Using that list as a basis, I have, loosely, the following priorities:

1. Bug fixes
2. Mod & map commands (to make some more things already in the game moddable and expand map making options
3. New Content, nations etc to get back the things that were in Dom2 but didn't get included in Dom3
4. Balance tweaks (can be modded already)
5. GUI and control improvements
6. AI improvements, or ability to mod AI
7. Other innovations and preference tweaks
8. Totally New Content, nations etc

The reality is that the devs are going to do what they feel is interesting and harping too much on something is just going to ensure that it is less likely to be added if it's an optional issue. It's also, given what they have posted, a fairly safe assumption that they are, or at least Kristoffer is, more of a sandbox player than cutthroat competitive player. A more sandbox style play does not have the same issues as cutthroat multislayer, so the prioritization was probably from the former rather than latter point of view.

Take that as you will. In the meanwhile, I'm going to concentrate on item 1) on the above list and try to do my best to make sure that problem issues are clearly listed and easily referenced. That way we are likely to see their number diminish drastically, leaving more time for the other items.

[Sombre]

Of course, even if new content isn't a big deal to me it's certainly better than nothing. I play SP and new nations to play are appreciated. But there are already more solid nations in the mod forum than I can keep up with.

Plus if you're someone who really loves the MP game and the new content is unbalanced you might actually have been better off with nothing, which is sort of frustrating.

If we aren't vocal about what we'd like/prefer, we're doing ourselves and the devs an injustice.

All that said, I really like Lanka.

[llamabeast]

Yeah, I think we all pretty much agree to be honest. I just wouldn't want the devs to feel that we're always demanding fixes, and not appreciating all the good stuff they do. New nations do add to the richness of the game, and Kristoffer's quality is generally exceptional.

[MaxWilson]

I do find it a little curious that anyone would demand balance fixes to Ulm while saying that new content doesn't matter. If the stamp of "official Illwinter Nation" doesn't matter, there are plenty of modded Ulms to use. If it does matter (and my perception is that it does), then new nations by Kristoffer will be more widely used than a mod nation, especially by the 90% of players who play casually and never visit the forums.

So to me, new content seems quite valuable. I'd love to see #4 (hooks for writing AIs) but it doesn't conflict in any way with new content because of the division of labor between K and J.

Other than that, I agree with Sombre's prioritization.

-Max

[Foodstamp]

This is a question to the guys who hate the old age mechanic. Are you guys playing with death scales? When I take growth scales, I can go years without getting an afflicted old age mage, and when I finally do get afflictions on my mages, it is usually just one or two mages out of the bunch.

This reminds me of the thread where people were upset about populations not increasing when a growth scale was not taken. People complain about the growth/death scales and fortune/misfortune scales being trivial and taking a backseat to Order/sloth. Then I see a lot of people complain about mechanics in the game that are directly affected by those scales that were listed as trivial before.

Maybe players should take a second look at what scales they consider to be trivial scales instead of wanting the benefits of those scales modded out of the game?

Most people hate the old age mechanic, and most people think that taking a death scale on your pretender is a no brainer. Is there a correlation?

[Sombre]

I don't think it's that the death scale weakens you that's annoying people - that's fair enough. It's that it weakens you in a way that increases micromanagement.

[Xietor]

No I always play man with 3 growth, but the crones still get afflictions too early and often to suit me.

I think the No Old Age Mod strikes a perfect balance to me with Man anyway. I still get a good number of Crones that are old, some even 4 years too old, but not every damn one is old and not only old but like 40 years past their max age.

I do not mind managing some old age, but i do not want it to be my main focus. It was a good concept to add to the game, since you had burden of time and decay already, but needed toned down.

[Graeme Dice]

Foodstamp said:
This is a question to the guys who hate the old age mechanic. Are you guys playing with death scales?

Other than Abysia, which becomes truly crippled when they use the death 3 scale that they are supposed to have, old age really only affects the human nations. These nations pay almost exactly the same gold cost for mages as the superhuman nations, yet don't get any benefit from their poor stats and susceptibility to randomly dying. Is an Arch-Theurg of Pythium or a Druid of Marverni really so powerful that he deserves to have the same cost as a Vanadrott and to also be old?

Most people hate the old age mechanic, and most people think that taking a death scale on your pretender is a no brainer. Is there a correlation?

The tiny amount of benefit you get for not having your mages get diseased with a growth scale in no way offsets the massive 120 point cost of the scale. A lack of disease won't even start to have effects till ~14 turns into the game, long after the critical initial expansion is over. The scale needs a lot more early game benefit before it would be worthwhile.