Glamour post 3.08 - Page 4

Valandil · #31 June 27th, 2007, 02:47 AM

Actually, saxon raises a good point. Vanheim has extremely easy acces to archery neuters (Air bless, arrow fend). How will a buff to archers vs glamour actuallly weaken vanheim, save by makoing F9 W9 (slightly) less attractive?

I'm a SP player, mainly, and I should mention that I've never ran into the "Vans vs. Human player" situation before- It's usually Ry'leh or Ermor (Even MA).

Velusion · #32 June 27th, 2007, 03:33 AM

I don't think this thread was to rehash the "Van's kick everyone's asses in the early game badly" thread. I think this thread was just to see if the 3.08 change actually weakened the vans somewhat.

The only player with any experience has been Jazzepi - who has said (from what i can tell) No, it hasn't.

atul · #33 June 27th, 2007, 03:55 AM

Hm, when I ran a quick test with a screen of statues and 50 indy archers, the glamour did get dispelled on quite many vans. However, after that you're left with a problem how to kill low-resource-cost high-defence high-protection cavalry. Which is not easy.

But evocation spells at least seem to work better against Vans nowadays.

AreWeInsaneYet · #34 June 27th, 2007, 04:51 AM

banishment is almost USELESS against shadow vestals, no matter what priest you are, H1 or H3.

I did a test run just now, using 8 C'tis priest king(who has much better precision--10 to 7--than agartha priests) scripted to 5x banishment banish 27 shadow vestals led by one ermor priest(NO ASPOSTACY, that is), and the result is pretty ridiculous: the first wave of banishment go before bless killed 6 vestals, and that's pretty much about it. yes, the second and third wave killed only 1 of 21 left, leave me 20 experienced vestals and 8 good fried lizard holy meats.

Sombre · #35 June 27th, 2007, 05:52 AM

Did you give the priests any meatshields?

AreWeInsaneYet · #36 June 27th, 2007, 06:16 AM

No. I just want to see exactly how well priests will do against vestals (e.g. how good is 8 banishment against normal vestals, how good is 8 against blessed one), as I already knew from my own experience that an army(read:20 to 40) of these shady girls in real battle is just unstoppable without mage's intervention.

High Priests and Banishment are there for LA Ermor' undead chaff, they are no match for few elite shock troop. Just imagine that: would you spam banishment against a Wraith Lord?

LoloMo · #37 June 27th, 2007, 06:43 AM

Going back to the Vans pre and post 3.08, I did not notice any difference. Massed archers still had no significant effect in any battle. I played C'tis versus Helheim in the Unlucky MP game, and fought helheim before and after 3.08. I rushed research Shadow Blast which worked. I remember that there also wasnt much difference in shadow blast effectiveness also pre and post 3.08 patch.

Sombre · #38 June 27th, 2007, 06:44 AM

Well in fairness the vestals would get hit by more banishments in a battle, since they wouldn't walk right over to the mages and kill them all - there would be some chaff in the way.

If you were testing whether poison slingers were a viable counter to heavy Arco infantry, you wouldn't just put 20 slingers against 20 heavy infantry, would you?

From the sounds of it, I don't think priests would work as a counter though.

LoloMo · #39 June 27th, 2007, 06:47 AM

I'm playing blessed shadow vestals in two MP games. I'm not worried about banishment at all. On the other hand, I'm scared of flaming arrows. Very scared =)

Baalz · #40 June 27th, 2007, 10:21 AM

Honestly, seems like the bigger change with regards to the vans is that glamor no longer protects against *spells*. Perhaps a few scepters of authority might work well now if your screen can hold them for a few turns? Generally, there are not going to be a whole lot of vans, so spells that effect just one target might work out well. Also, has anybody yet seen the vans go up against crossbows (or arbalests) in 3.08? Seems like that would work significantly better than short bows.