New icon series

[PlasmaKrab]

Suhiir said:
Trouble is I want to keep the Sidewinders.

What I'll probably do is pull them from the Attack version and give the COIN version only TOW's.

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to make a bunker buster version of the Hellfire. To be honest I'm not all that impressed with them anti-tank wise in SPMBT, the advanced multi-charge and top-attack TOWs are much more effective.

Question: what do you plan on using your COIN versions for? For instance, the ones COIN variants I have created in some OOBs are nearly bereft of any AT weaponry. I have given e.g. some HE (FAE) ATGMs to some fictional Hind variants, and some BB Hellfires would make sense for MC choppers. You'd have to set the variants straight, of course. But I mean, I have stripped down COIN Cobras even down to their AP 20mm rounds. In exchange they get more HE Hydras.
Also, I have stuck to AAMs only when it was more or less built in in the helo default loadout (see Tigers) or didn't lose hardpoints or weapon slots to more important stuff.
Most of the time, and characteristically in operations were COIN loadouts are to be preferred to tank hunters, the AA ability is moot, and a waste of lots of points, because you are not going to come across much air in the first place.

Regarding the Hellfire, it's true you can't model its main advantage in Marines terms, i.e. that it can be fired over large expenses of water without losing signal .
Because of a much higher speed, it should also be significantly more accurate than a TOW in game terms. Warhead is larger, range higher, there are a numer of factors that should make them better than the TOWs.
Agreed now, I just checked my modded OOBs and the baseline Hellfire returns a cost value 2 points lower than the TOW-2A...

[PlasmaKrab]

OK, I just run through all the posts and fixed the links. Looks like Box just noticed last week that I wasn't allowed to use direct links, because it worked before then...

[KraMax]

PlasmaKrab
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perfect icons. thanx PlasmaKrab.

Best regards

[Suhiir]

PlasmaKrab said:
Question: what do you plan on using your COIN versions for? For instance, the ones COIN variants I have created in some OOBs are nearly bereft of any AT weaponry. I have given e.g. some HE (FAE) ATGMs to some fictional Hind variants, and some BB Hellfires would make sense for MC choppers. You'd have to set the variants straight, of course. But I mean, I have stripped down COIN Cobras even down to their AP 20mm rounds. In exchange they get more HE Hydras.
Also, I have stuck to AAMs only when it was more or less built in in the helo default loadout (see Tigers) or didn't lose hardpoints or weapon slots to more important stuff.
Most of the time, and characteristically in operations were COIN loadouts are to be preferred to tank hunters, the AA ability is moot, and a waste of lots of points, because you are not going to come across much air in the first place.

Regarding the Hellfire, it's true you can't model its main advantage in Marines terms, i.e. that it can be fired over large expenses of water without losing signal .
Because of a much higher speed, it should also be significantly more accurate than a TOW in game terms. Warhead is larger, range higher, there are a numer of factors that should make them better than the TOWs.
Agreed now, I just checked my modded OOBs and the baseline Hellfire returns a cost value 2 points lower than the TOW-2A...

The COIN version I give 1/2 the Hellfire/TOW loadout (4 missiles instead of 8) and 19-shot rocket pods instead of 9's. The early versions often have a lower Vision rating too (since they had no built-in system and wore wore NVG's).

BB Hellfire's would be nice, that stats did you give them?

The AAM's on the AH-1 are mounted on the ends of the stubby weapon mount wings, nothing else can be mounted there. It's more a matter of do they feel the need to carry them. I suppose there might be some weight trade-off so they'd carry less other weapons, but I never seen (or looked for) any indication of this.

You need to keep in mind doctrine too. Strange as it may sound the main anti-tank weapons of the USMC are fixed wing and helo's. We don't have enough tanks to play Tank Wars. USMC tanks are primarily infantry support. Sure, if they're handy we'll send them after other tanks, but given how few of them we have we don't assume they'll be available. Thus unless we know damn good and well there is no armor around no AH-1 would leave the ground without a few ATGM's.

Yeah I looked at the Hellfire's a bit last night, decided to go with the 'A' and 'K' variants. The double warhead on the 'K' will help a lot I'm sure. Outta curiosity I noticed the 'A' variant had the same accuracy as the TOW's and the 'B' in the default OOB was only 7% better, what sort of accuracy did you give them?

[Epoletov_SPR]

It would be good if to diversify the image of Towed Artillery, and also Barge Carrier, to make varios RPG / Inf.ATGM units.

[RecruitMonty]

"It would be good if to diversify the image of Towed Artillery, and also Barge Carrier, to make varios RPG / Inf.ATGM units."

Now that I agree with!

[thatguy96]

I think the various RPG/ATGM units are pretty hardcoded with the way infantry units appear. Barge carrier diversity appears in WinSPWWII, but its easier because of a smaller number of nations and units in general (though some variance might be nice and is possible).

I have some new artillery icons in my pack that were provided to me by Laurent Touchard (I think they might be Plasma's work actually heh).

[PlasmaKrab]

There's been some unofficial fooling around involving icons for infantry weapons (ATGMs, MANPADS...) a number of years ago, so that could be started again if needed. Bear in mind that the icon for "Inf-AT", "Inf-SAM" and "Inf-RR"-class units is fixed, and these icons would be used for separate classes which consist of weapon + separate crew. That could be arty, mortars, area SAMs, RLRs, AT guns...
So RPGs themselves are out of question,except if you want to start over a new unit class.

I've done a couple of arty icons, namely a D-30 and a notional advanced 152/155mm long-tube howitzer. I know Laurent had been working on several other Vietnam-era weapons, and I may or may not give some more work on all of this.

[PlasmaKrab]

Suhiir said:The COIN version I give 1/2 the Hellfire/TOW loadout (4 missiles instead of 8) and 19-shot rocket pods instead of 9's. The early versions often have a lower Vision rating too (since they had no built-in system and wore wore NVG's).
(...)
You need to keep in mind doctrine too. Strange as it may sound the main anti-tank weapons of the USMC are fixed wing and helo's. We don't have enough tanks to play Tank Wars. USMC tanks are primarily infantry support. Sure, if they're handy we'll send them after other tanks, but given how few of them we have we don't assume they'll be available. Thus unless we know damn good and well there is no armor around no AH-1 would leave the ground without a few ATGM's.

Thanks for the doctrine info. Now this raises the question (again...) of how you handle attack and COIN classes prior to ATGM service.
Since you're up to picklists, I'd personally tend to replace the standard AT helo and plane sets with COIN-only (no or few AT weapons) only when facing vehicle-less opponents, think Viet-Cong, Somalia, Iraq from 2004 onwards, to quote a few real-world examples. Keep in mind that both helo classes wouldn't cohabit in the same battle unless you (player or scenarist) really want them to.

BB Hellfire's would be nice, that stats did you give them?
(...)
Yeah I looked at the Hellfire's a bit last night, decided to go with the 'A' and 'K' variants. The double warhead on the 'K' will help a lot I'm sure. Outta curiosity I noticed the 'A' variant had the same accuracy as the TOW's and the 'B' in the default OOB was only 7% better, what sort of accuracy did you give them?

Code:

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Model       Name                Acc.  WHS  HEATP  MinRange MaxRange IOC

AGM-114A    Hellfire             94    8    100  25       160      86

AGM-114K    Hellfire-II          95    9    100  ???      180      94

AGM-114L    Hellfire-Longbow     100   9    100  ???      180      2005

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These are the ones I use for obat012, precluding any non-HEAT variant which I haven't started on yet.
HE-Frag stats should be easy, look at howitzer stats of same WHS.
FAE is a bit hazy, depending on what you consider a penetration. HEK should be higher than for Frags, but not too much, maybe divide WHS by 3 to reduce off-hex splash damage.
APHE (blast-frag) should get HE-Frag HEK levels, HEAT penetration divided by ~3 and HE penetration to your liking, but low (preferably shrapnel level).
All that is wild guess from end to end, since I haven't tested it yet.

The AAM's on the AH-1 are mounted on the ends of the stubby weapon mount wings, nothing else can be mounted there. It's more a matter of do they feel the need to carry them. I suppose there might be some weight trade-off so they'd carry less other weapons, but I never seen (or looked for) any indication of this.

Fair enough. As I said, when it doesn't intrude on other weapons (like it does on the Tiger which I've always done with alternate rocket loadouts), it is more a matter of weapon slots and unit cost.

[Epoletov_SPR]

Your work is important for us !

I hope developers from SP CAMO will include these new Icon in WinSP !?

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Barge Carriers look too bulky in WinSPMBT 3.5, can be make their such?


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