Mod: Worthy Heroes 1.8

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

I thought Hel was a place (a bit like hell)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_%28being%29

She could a good pretender choice, but because Helheim lacks heroes, I might go into a more "inspired by Hel" territory. Perhaps somesort of sorceress that is half-dead and half-alive (like literally) who once ruled over the underworld and serves the awakening god to get her queendom back.

I'm a bit dissapointed on the fact there is not Thor/ Loki/ Tyr/ Hel equivalents in dom3, but if their powers and the concept is a bit watered down, they could make for some excellent heroes.

[Gandalf Parker]

Would be a good suggestion to the Mytheology mod (which adds pretenders). Particularly since you wouldnt have to be too concerned with watering down and balancing then.

[Squirrelloid]

Arguably Thor is just a Titan pretender. I mean, he's a mountain and lightning god. The niche is filled.

I don't know what you think you'd do with Tyr. He's a god of justice and oaths, which is... largely irrelevant to statting him out. So arguably he can just be some random titan chassis, say General of the West, or whatever else floats your boat.

There's an argument to be made for adding the Lord of Rebirth to the vanheim pretender set as a Baldr representation.

The only reason Hel is hard to represent is because of gender. I mean, PoD sort of covers the thematic territory rather well...

Loki can possibly be shoe-horned in somewhere, although he probably has the best claim to not being representable by the game. (Its not clear to me which nation should be allowed to choose such a pretender. Vanheim, because he was adopted as half-brother by Odin? But he's trying to destroy the aesir and vanir and will fight against them at Ragnarok, so... Niefl/Jotun/Utgard pretender?)

The point of pretenders isn't to represent specific divine beings, but to represent common concepts of divine beings. That we have an 'its obviously Heimdall' pretender is kind of ridiculous, since he's a minor god hardly worth including in the game, and with basically no analogs in other myth sets, and isn't notably different from other choices already available to Vanheim. (Oh gee, another AE titan chassis, how lovely).

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Arguably Thor is just a Titan pretender. I mean, he's a mountain and lightning god. The niche is filled.

Does he ride a chariot drawn by immortal goats? Can he smite niefelheim giants with Mjöllnjir? Sure, the Titan might *play out* somewhat like Thor equivalent would but it would not feel like Thor for us who get our kicks from stuff like this.

But you are very correct about their rebundancy as pretenders. As cool as a Thor pretender would be, he would not give anything that Vanheim needs out of a pretender and would thus be never used. Hel would make a poor goddess for Helheim because they have no uses for a Titan chassis with D magic.

Hence the hero idea. The idea of heroes is that they are certain know characters of myth. Thor would make a fine hero, air and earth magic, custom modded throwable mjöllnjir that smites giants. Sure he won't be a size 6 titan or a "god", but anyone who would see him would recognize him and could get the kicks out of kicking a*s with Thor.

As for Loki, he could a be "unique" hero for all Vanheims/Helheim and niefel nations. If another nation gets him while he in the service of another, he goes *boof* (like a unique that was wished for) and starts serving the other nation. It could be kind of annoying, but the bizarre rarity of that event and the utter thematicness of it should balance that aspect out.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

Does he ride a chariot drawn by immortal goats? Can he smite niefelheim giants with Mjöllnjir? Sure, the Titan might *play out* somewhat like Thor equivalent would but it would not feel like Thor for us who get our kicks from stuff like this.

Mjolnir is a metaphor, in that particular aspect for lightning, and its impact is thunder. The Titan pretender throws lightning bolts = Mjolnir. Just because its listed as lightning instead of a hammer takes nothing away from it - we've merely deconstructed the metaphor. (Kind of necessary since there are lots of Thor equivalents, none of whom use a hammer as a metaphor for lightning. Eg, Zeus).

I grant there are no goats pulling a chariot. Imagine that as his own personal air ship or something, so you'd have to forge it for him. Or perhaps that's his version of casting flight on himself.

A generalized pretender idea will never meet all the specifics in their specific aspect for a given mythological figure who exemplifies that type. But with a little imagination all the essential bits will be found, even if it requires deconstructing the metaphors built into the myth.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Mjolnir is a metaphor, in that particular aspect for lightning, and its impact is thunder. The Titan pretender throws lightning bolts = Mjolnir. Just because its listed as lightning instead of a hammer takes nothing away from it - we've merely deconstructed the metaphor. (Kind of necessary since there are lots of Thor equivalents, none of whom use a hammer as a metaphor for lightning. Eg, Zeus).

I grant there are no goats pulling a chariot. Imagine that as his own personal air ship or something, so you'd have to forge it for him. Or perhaps that's his version of casting flight on himself.

A generalized pretender idea will never meet all the specifics in their specific aspect for a given mythological figure who exemplifies that type. But with a little imagination all the essential bits will be found, even if it requires deconstructing the metaphors built into the myth.

Oh, wow. I've bethered by the lack of Thor since Dom:PPP, but all these years all I needed to do was to take the titan dressed in a *toga*, and just have incredible suspension of disbelief to pretend that the dude on my computer screen that has *none* of the iconic trappings of Thor would be Thor. Oh, silly me.

But hey, if you have the mental capacity for that kind selective percepition, that's just more power to you.

Anyways, in this kind of pointless since I already agreed on that havng them as pretenders would be a bad idea.

[Xietor]

Burn, though i have not played this game in quite some time, I was tinkering with my mods to get them to work with windows 7. If you recall, several of your heroes are in Throne of Heroes, which is a Worthy Heroes Mod updated for the middle era.

If you get bored I need a lobster sprite. I am adding heroes to a couple of the EA races too(just the ones I like to play against Zoshan). ea Ryleh and EA Abysia have heroes now in addition to the Middle era. But I have not posted the link because I am still working on EA Ryleh.

I also found where the Kitsume(ma shin.) only had two misc slots(an error i missed from the last edit).

Have fun!

btw in real life i turned 50 and benched 370 after my 50th birthday. It is recorded on youtube for nonbelievers! Kristopher is going to have to redo human warriors and tinker with old age stats so the str. does not decline until age 60 or so.

[Gandalf Parker]

What would be really fun is to somehow provide Loki a random thing that fills in his "trickster" persona. All I can think of is an external program that can be run on pre-exec or post-exec switch to randomize something and write the change to the .dm file (which does seem to work on some things).

Getting too far OT. but.. do .dm files have an option to read in other files? chaining? it would keep the original .dm cleaner

[Sombre]

You're right, why add any worthy heroes at all? :P

[Burnsaber]

Since I mentioned my intentions to update the WH here, I think it would be fair to announce here that the project is complete.

Here is the thread for the just released WH 1.9