Tourmaline - Mod Nations Game (Finished)

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

Yeah, I don't think Lizardmen are too OP, they're a bit hard work on account of expensive forts and mages. However, I would agree with limiting the temple guard to be capital only.

I think the thing that throws me off is the troop lineup: a good recuitable anywhere sacred, a size 6 trampler, several units with magic weapons/attacks (that's a big one), a variety of special purpose units. As far as the mages, the slann are excellent but it's also that they have access to every path but death. I think you can get around the fact that things are expensive if you take decent scales (which shouldn't be a problem even with, say, an E9 bless).

But it all depends on the competition. Against vanilla MA I think they're OP; against Stygia, no.

[Trumanator]

Itza is indeed very good, but keep in mind that the trampler is 300 gp, the sacreds are going to be cap only in this version, and that their non cap mainline mage is 650 gp, with the cap only one being 850! I do worry though for Haida Gwai and maybe Arga and Alugra. I have no idea about Alchera.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Valerius

Nah, you're the game organizer. You should be able to choose the nation you want to play.

Hmm, well most nations have cap only mages - just not ones as good as Itza. And the recruit anywhere Fifth Generation Slann aren't that shabby. But I don't think you should change them for the game. Anyway, I took a look at Stygia and they'll probably give you a run for your money. Units with a defense of 34+? They laugh at clumsy glamour nations with their defenses in the 20s. . Weapons with soul slay and banish to inferno?

Off to convince Foodstamp to change the Haida Gwaii mod before this game begins.

Sounds good.

BTW, I took a look at Shahrivar and it's beautiful. Definitely would be a nice map to use.

My point wasn't that the 4th generation slann were cap only, but that they were expensive... at 850 gold as trumanator pointed out . That's as expensive as some forts, and you need to recruit a certain number of them just to get paths you need for forging, not to mention rituals. The slann are very poor ritual casters, while being great battle mages. The only way to really break into ritual casting is with the summonable 3rd generation slann, who are pretty expensive at 50 pearls a pop and conjuration 7.

Well, the only two units stygia has that get that soulslay attack are a mage and a hero. The mage is hardly terrifying with its 9 hp and dreadful combat stats. The hero, well, he's a bit meaner. What has 34+ defense? I looked through the .dm file and saw nothing with stats so high. Anyway, my personal feeling is that stygia is kind of ermor lite early in the game, eventually getting some nasty unique summons that heavily entice other players to cast Well of Misery so they can't have it And trust me, there are plenty of death nations in this game who have good reason to pursue that well. We'll have to see how the game plays out, but I think there will be plenty of work ahead for stygia if he wants to win this game. Same with me

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Itza is indeed very good, but keep in mind that the trampler is 300 gp, the sacreds are going to be cap only in this version, and that their non cap mainline mage is 650 gp, with the cap only one being 850! I do worry though for Haida Gwai and maybe Arga and Alugra. I have no idea about Alchera.

Haida Gwaii has spammable thunder strikers, alugra has ubiquitous thugs. Arga has great non-sacred infantry and recruitable SCs, as well as decent forging paths and blood magic. Alchera is probably on the weaker side of nations playing in this game, but ethereal sacreds are nothing to sneeze at. Well, for anyone other than myself... :P

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by rdonj

My point wasn't that the 4th generation slann were cap only, but that they were expensive... at 850 gold as trumanator pointed out . That's as expensive as some forts, and you need to recruit a certain number of them just to get paths you need for forging, not to mention rituals. The slann are very poor ritual casters, while being great battle mages. The only way to really break into ritual casting is with the summonable 3rd generation slann, who are pretty expensive at 50 pearls a pop and conjuration 7.

Well, the only two units stygia has that get that soulslay attack are a mage and a hero. The mage is hardly terrifying with its 9 hp and dreadful combat stats. The hero, well, he's a bit meaner. What has 34+ defense? I looked through the .dm file and saw nothing with stats so high. Anyway, my personal feeling is that stygia is kind of ermor lite early in the game, eventually getting some nasty unique summons that heavily entice other players to cast Well of Misery so they can't have it And trust me, there are plenty of death nations in this game who have good reason to pursue that well. We'll have to see how the game plays out, but I think there will be plenty of work ahead for stygia if he wants to win this game. Same with me

Ok, I see my mistake. I was looking at the (EA?) version of Stygia from here. Now I found the MA version.

[llamabeast]

Sombre is quite careful with balance. I honestly think Itza is not crazy. The sheer expense of producing the Slann makes it hard to produce them in any numbers, and having done so they're surprisingly un-useful. Very hard to boost you see (no slots), so they're terrible ritual casters. In battle they're okay but you'll never has very many, so frankly I would generally be more scared of say Marignon's fire mages. Also if you want a second or third fort to churn out skink priests (which you do) they cost a whopping 2300 gold before you can make the priests, and take 6 turns to put up.

[Burnsaber]

!

Alugra, my precious baby, is in! Oh, the happy day! (The nation was somewhat designed with MP in mind, so I'm glad it's in)

Just wanted to tell everyone that the Alugra nation mod makes some global changes*. They're not that crucial and Rdonj can remove them if he so wishes.

* Alugra adds a new (very weak) forgeable fire magic item: Hellfire Bracers. It also boosts the "Brigand Lair" common blood site and changes the names of some astral were for thematic reasons.

[rdonj]

I'm not worried about the changes alugra makes. Thanks for pointing that out though, I'd forgotten about those.

I don't suppose you'd like to take a crack at the game, burnsaber? You do seem a bit busy with other games though.

[rdonj]

The same invitation is extended to llama of course, but I have the feeling if you're popping in that many times without signing up, you're not gonna :P

[Burnsaber]

Thanks for the invitation, but I'll have to decline. Althought I'm absolutely tempted to play Ulm Reborn, I have a bit too much on my plate right now.

But I'll keep very close eye to this thread. You know, just for the far-out chance that someone mentions something about Alugra.

Oh, you'll probably have to off the CPCS dream. No way you are going to get them to fit with so many national spells. Unless you are willing to override 78 vanilla national spells. Also remember that the llama's mod combiner script doesn't take into account magic site recruitables, so you'll have to set capital only troops (and the Alugran change to Bringand Lair) by hand.

Also if you hit the spell limit, you can overwrite vanilla national spells to get more spell slots, but llamaserver had some problem with that, if I recall the Unsanity-drama correctly.