Is password guessing cheating?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Hadrian Tyrael S. Aventine:
It's still cheating to guess a password, even for the hell of it.

Things that expose cheaters that guess passwords

- Suddenly all thier ships move to another area with no reason
- If they are egotistical, they drop hints to thier own superiority (thus proving hwo dumb they are).
- They know stuff that can be gathered via cloaked ships -- but they don't have cloaking researched.....
- Suddenly they know where all your best shipyards are and destroy them.

Those are just some of the cheaters' ways.

Guessing passwords is cheating, yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

No, it's not even remotly equatable to the intel ops of WWII, or even to any hypothetical Nazi brain reading technology that was or wasn't developed. But all that was during a war. And this is a game. All is fair in love and war. All is not fair in games.

Even real armies during war games don't allow unrestricted warfare. There are things you do during war that you don't do during games.

All that being said, if any of the things Hadrian and DavidG suggests happen to you during a game, PLEASE don't assume it's the work of cheaters. All of these things can just as easily be explained through perfectly legitimate game reasons.

Intelligence, Partnerships with empires that have cloaking technology, even just guessing or raw chance. During a war I will often avoid larger planets, or medium sized planets that are atmosphere correct. I will always check the population of a planet before attacking and make an educated guess about the defensive levels. You can also make supositions based on resource levels. Higher ones would tend to be colonized earlier, thus be older and have more defenses.

Cheating is cheating, but let's not let suspicion and paranoia ruin games either.

Geoschmo

[ June 30, 2002, 21:05: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[disabled]

That's very true.

The only true way to expose a cheater is to cheat yourself and that is something I doubt anyone wants to see.

I think cheating needs to be handled on a case-by-case system with everything properly investigated and explained.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
All that being said, if any of the things Hadrian and DavidG suggests happen to you during a game, PLEASE don't assume it's the work of cheaters.

Geoschmo

Double ditto to that. I hope I didn't imply you should assume someone is cheating whenever something happens you can't explain. There are so many ways to get ahead in this game that if you find someone way ahead of you chances are he/she just know something you don't, or got a lucky break etc etc etc

[Hank]

If this ever became a real problem, the game would have to be made more secure by making separate turn results for each player. A player's turn result would only contain data for his/her race. PBW would only allow downloading of a player's turn result thru their login.

Edit: Forgot to mention. Cheaters Suck Hind Tit!

[ July 01, 2002, 23:48: Message edited by: Hank ]

[geoschmo]

The next patch will have more sophisticated protection against hacking the program to allow access to other players empires. But it's still only as secure as your password. If you use one that is easily guessable, you are opening yourself up for potential abuse.

Geoschmo

[Puke]

when i play games with people i know in person, we usually dont use passwords. because we know each other. because that ****ty advice you got in gradeschool about 'only cheating yourself' is basically true. if you cheat at a game, you are taking the fun out of it.

its the same principle that lets me walk to the corner store for more beer and pretzels while playing a tabletop wargame, without having to wory about my adversary looking at my chits.

who would even want to play a game if you were going to cheat? you would know that youre not good enough to beat your opponent in open competition, and you would have to live with the fact that you're basically worthless as a tactician, as a gamer, and as a friend.

while i'll grant you that im not above bringing a gun to a knife fight, games are a different story. how do you expect to hone your strategic skills if you cant play fair? you might as well always make a point of gaming with people you know to be inferior to you so you can always have the satisfaction of winning.

[dmm]

Hmmm ... is it cheating to try to guess a password without actually hacking?
I don't think so, so I will now try to guess a password on a CIA computer. Dum de dum .... No, no, no, no, boy this is hard, no, no, ...
[ 1 hour later ]
... no, no, no, ...
[knock knock knock]
Hey look! There's a whole mess of police cars outside my house! Boy, some idiot is in a LOT of trouble!

[DavidG]

Originally posted by dmm:
Hmmm ... is it cheating to try to guess a password without actually hacking?
I don't think so, so I will now try to guess a password on a CIA computer. Dum de dum .... No, no, no, no, boy this is hard, no, no, ...
[ 1 hour later ]
... no, no, no, ...
[knock knock knock]
Hey look! There's a whole mess of police cars outside my house! Boy, some idiot is in a LOT of trouble!

Hey waaait a minute!! How did you know the answer was no unless you tried it? Hope they lock you away!! This demonstrates the utter futility of what has been termed here as 'non-active' or 'passive' guessing. It is so utterly pointless I seriously doubt anyone is doing.

[ July 03, 2002, 00:30: Message edited by: DavidG ]

[Puke]

alright, heres what pisses me off. i hit a ****ing fire extinguiser on my bike on i880. no, thats not what pisses me off, heres what pisses me off:

f---ing first ammendment f---ing a--ed f--ks. the f---ers that say f---ed up sh-t like "oh, its not cheating to do things that the game allows."

like if the game allows you to view your eneimes password, then its okay. bull-shorts. the program lets you cheat so its okay to cheat. RIGHT.

i know the Last poster was joking, so no offense to him, but GIVE ME A BREAK! i know there are people out there who are thinking like this, and it frickin' hacks me off.

I go out of my way not to believe in right and wrong, but if COMMON SENSE tells you that you are taking UNFAIR ADVANTAGE of a situation, you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT DO IT. i dont know how much more detail i can go into if the average person does not get it already. im about ready to give up my outrageously overpaid computer geek job to particpate in some ridiculously underpaid career like the police force. something with some fricking morale gratificaion for petes sakes.

gosh darn, some one give me another beer.

[Askan Nightbringer]

I'm with Puke.

The issue with this game (if it can be called an issue) is the huge investment in time it takes to play a game. I've played PBW games that have gone for 9+ months, and finished at a fairly amicable end.

I measure my time in how much money I would have got paid if I was actually working. That means if a cheater wrecks a long running game he owes me alot of cash. Being up here in Australia means its fairly unlikely I will ever get to collect my debt (until cheating in SE4 comes under the ICC) but I do travel alot and if I ever get to the cheater's town I will come for him/her/it with a cricket bat.

Now I'm not saying I'm a nice player, I'm the first to admit I'm a complete bastard. But I'de never go beyond the game to achieve a conquest.
I do, however, pay much attention to what goes on in this forum, the attitudes of the posters and the attitudes of various players I've met on the battlefield. Basically I have a "George W" style naughty list of people I'de never bother playing against.

I don't like to waste my time.

Askan

Oh...and the difference in the poll about password guessing and password hacking....thats just a difference in the talent/skills of the cheater. If its alright to 'guess' a password its alright to hack one. Wake up.