Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

[Arralen]

Basically, that would mean making the sword better for anyone with STR<11, and progressivly worse for anyone STR>11.

[Huzurdaddi]

I think Zen did entirely the correct thing. The only other solution with life draining weapons is to remove them entirely. In a test increasing cost did not have much of an effect on people usage of life draining weapons due to their effect wrt. fatigue.

Zen's changes keep them in the game but make them useful only in limited circumstances.

[Oversway]

I'm not unhappy with the changes, although there are other games you could play with them. Keep the -10 damage but make them armor piercing. Or keep the dmg the same but give them a really bad att and/or def modifier. Or the high dmg nostr suggestion.

I'd like to see how games are with the current changes before trying to 'fix it'

[Resok]

One quick suggestion Zen about the Item Mod:

Consider adding #bonus to chi kick? It makes no sense that the kick would count against DW penalties when for example the Gore Attack from the Horned Helm is considerd #bonus.

Resok

[Zen]

Hmm.

Lets start with the Lifedrain Weapons:

The reasoning for the change in costs was to create more scarcity. It's bad enough that the best weapons in the game give you hp and fatigue that allows general use of about 80% of the game (non-lifeless unit), but they also are priced so reasonably that even if you did want to choose another weapon, for another 5 gems or 5 slaves you could pick yourself up the all-in-one use weapon.

With that said. The Hellsword is supposed to be priced to 2B2F it went one too high in a late test game and didn't get changed back.

For the Damage portion. I wanted to create only situational use of the life drain weapons and for them to be statistically _worse_ than other weapons of the same construction and path requirement levels.

-10 Damage still allows use for anything over 25 Str to lifedrain about half as well as it does in an unmodded game (where you could simply equip a lifedraining weapon and a ring of regen and virtually no amount of recruitable troops surrounding a SC will be able to outdamage the lifedrain and regen)

This also still allows Astral Weapon and Weapons of Sharpness to play into the equation and not be overly powerful. I was debating between the -6 and the -10 damage variables and ended up going with the -10 in order to see the reaction. Even with -6 (Which is a -15 Total Damage removed from Lifedrain weapons) the lifedrains are more in consideration than with -10 (where you might *not* consider them on your ID's or BL's simply because an AOE weapon might let you live longer).

This is the first version and as such I'd rather have -10 Damage try to be exploited rather than the -6 that I know can be exploited to what extent.

Final Note about Lifedrain Weapons: I don't hate them at all. But I do consider them so good that there is no reason in an unmodded game to not pick one unless you are taking a herald lance (for the only thing that your lifedrain weapon doesn't work on). And with the limit of the modding tools the only answer is to mod the base stats in order to create a sense of equilibrium between magical weaponry. Just upping the cost wouldn't change the game to a great extent except making the person with the most Death/Blood Slaves able to play the game the exact same way as in an unmodded game (I.E. winning with the same tired tactics), which is not the direction I chose to go because I feel that lifedrain in an unmodded game is so good and renders too much so suboptimal that it isn't chosen when considering something for efficency.

Re: Bloodthorn: The weapon is no longer considered a threat and you can't get lifedraining and a shield by any reasonable combination (Astral Weapon, etc). That was my intent.

[Zen]

Good Idea Resnok. I thought it was already but apparently not.

I will be releasing a new mod in the next day or two.

[Ironhawk]

I like the reasoning of your changes to the lifedrain weapons, Zen. Looking forward to playing some games with the mod.

[Resok]

Just out of curiousity: What was the reasoning behind switching the Atlantis/Ryleh Pretender "Son of the Sea" to 2W 1D? I thought it was much more thematic before to have 1E and the 1D seems completely out of place. Then again that's just my opinion so feel free to ignore me, I'm just curious to hear the reasoning. There are many spells like fire ward and the like that make alot of sense thematically for a water nation to have. Water being the elemental opposite of fire after all... but anyway, I'm babbling.

Just my opinion on the matter as I found thematically a water/earth pretender made sense whereas a supposed "Son of the Sea" being having death magic just doesn't. There are plenty of other death magic pretenders for both water nations (liches/ghosts and such).

Resok

[Cainehill]

Regarding the Dragon pretenders - seems that either the red and green dragon should be cheaper, or have their alternate form changed.

The reason I say this is that the blue dragon gets the benefit of its alternate form : sailing and cold resistance. By contrast, the red dragon's "Great Sage" counterpart doesn't get a sage bonus ( 2F = 4 research; great sage with 2F = 12 research).

Similarly, the Green Dragon's Druid form doesn't get stealth or forest survival, nor does it get 2 extra vine men per casting.

I suspect this is a bug, because the dragons are supposed to benefit from the alternate form's abilities, but in fact only the blue dragon does.

[Oversway]

I agree I liked the son of the sea a little better with earth. I'm not sure thematically if it matters to me but I did like the variety.