YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [7/24 players left]

[WraithLord]

And how would you explain the same phenomena in first YARG, that was even won by non bless nation?

I'm looking for feedback so I could decide on the settings for the sequel. I'm not hell bent on hard research but it's certainly different than your run the mill game.

Perhaps the players, dead or alive, would be kind enough to say yes or no (or elaborate if they want to) so that I can get that feedback.

As for your position, in retrospect, was your build optimal or do you think you could plan or do things differently and do better?

I know that both in this game and the previous I made grievous errors that severely hurt me. That said, in previous game I had the non bless Bogarus and got as far as staying alive until endgame.

[Squirrelloid]

So, non-bless nations tend to have stronger late games, its true, which means if a few survive the early game, one of them is likely to win. (There are exceptions of course - Lanka and Mictlan both have strong mid and late games).

I have no idea what even happened in the first YARG game, so i can't comment.

Also keep in mind that there are non-bless nations that have good early games. Sauromatia in EA, for example. Bogarus has an amazing early game, so making it to late game with them isn't surprising.

Regarding my position: I was EA Agartha. There was nothing plausibly useful i could do except hope i could gain a sufficient research advantage while i still had material left to do something. That i survived as long as i did was a miracle, especially given my neighbors. But it took so long to research essential spells that I just ran out of material before I could do anything.

TBH, i had planned on being dead by turn 20. It was kind of shocking when that failed to happen. But i pushed my research as hard as i could in the time i had, it just wasn't soon enough.

My recommendation? Don't include (non-LA) agartha in RAND games. Ever. They're simply so bad that they're unplayable when you can't conduct diplomacy.

[don_Pablo]

Eden was won by AdmiralZhao with EA Agartha.
And he left competitors far behind almost at the very beginning of the game, if my memory serves me right.

[TheConway]

Bogarus has an amazing early game? First I've heard, from ANYONE.

[PriestyMan]

Bogarus has an amazing early game, so making it to late game with them isn't surprising.

i'm really hoping that you are joking here

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by don_Pablo

Eden was won by AdmiralZhao with EA Agartha.
And he left competitors far behind almost at the very beginning of the game, if my memory serves me right.

Ok, there are like 2 notable players in that game beside Admiral Zhao, so basically he beat up on n00bs and bad players. Go him. Admiral Zhao is a top notch player, and Baalz has also handicapped himself with Pangaea.

I'll also note that said game is not a RAND game, which makes a huge difference for weaker nations. Its pretty obvious from the thread that he was making ample use of diplomacy as well, since he apparently had NAPs with most of his neighbors.

The rich settings may also make Agartha more viable, but I'm not sure.

Basically, you can't point to that game as an example of anything, much less a RAND game.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by PriestyMan

i'm really hoping that you are joking here

(1) CBM cavalry for them is amazing
(2) TS rush/spam is trivially accomplished.

The only weak thing about them is infantry, and no one compels you to hire them. They have incredible research tempo out of the gates, which should give them an early research lead *without* an awake pretender. Combine that with some of the better mages in LA and if you can't turn that into something awesome then you're just bad.

[WingedDog]

What's wrong with EA Agartha? I'm not joking or mocking, I just never played them and I'm not much into theory.

Squirrelloid
You could really provide us your AAR, Caelum and C'tis already did. I doubt your story would affect the game at this stage. I wonder what was your build and what you were planning to do in the game.

WraithLord
My vote is for difficult research in further YARG games. I play the second game and I really enjoy this setting.

[WraithLord]

Yes Squirrelloid, you could share your build + AAR with us and we could do a theoretic exercise in seeing if it could have been better optimized for this game.
Also, what is "TS" for Bogarus.
I disagree that they have amazing early game. They have good research yes and nice cavalry but an early rush from a bless nation can kill Bogarus. I'm not just being theoretic here, I'm talking from personal experience both as Bogarus player and neighbor to Bogarus. In a RAND type game I wouldn't recommend taking it w/o awake SC pretender - well unless you have a death wish that is.

WingedDog, I feel the same. I'm glad you like the settings. So far we have:
Hard research: 2
Normal research: 1

Another advantage of this settings is that it helps push further in the direction that CBM is leading: i.e. get more mileage out of earlier spells/items/summons.
Did previous YARG game end with tartrians all over the place?- Lo and behold - It certainly did not! and that with an earlier CBM. The more I think about this the more I like the setting.

[WingedDog]

WraithLord
I don't know, my personal choice for Bogarus is a great sage. With early research boost and proper magic schools they can deflect any rush, or even rush someone themselves. Then total arcane domination in the midgame, as noone even close to their research level.