Niefelheim - Who’s afraid of the big bad wolf?

[WraithLord]

You say the Skratti werewolf form doesn't cost upkeep and that its a known bug. I have tested this in SP game and saw no indication to that in the upkeep number. I mean, I took a skratti and changed it to werewolf and the upkeep number stayed the same. Anyway I take your word for it and think this exploit should be specifically banned in MP games house rules.

[rdonj]

I'm pretty sure the upkeep cost change doesn't show up until the next turn. Try having a bunch of skratti, change them all at once and don't build anything that turn.

Edit: Too slow! *dies*

[Baalz]

It doesn't show up until you cycle a turn. Check you upkeep. Change a skratti to werewolf form while recruiting nothing. End turn. Your upkeep next turn will be lower.

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by Baalz

It doesn't show up until you cycle a turn. Check you upkeep. Change a skratti to werewolf form while recruiting nothing. End turn. Your upkeep next turn will be lower.

Nasty bug. I hope they squish it in next patch. and while IW is at it they can hopefully fix the annoying change form bug - whereas if you give the order to change form in battle you end up as wolf and lose all your non misc. items.

[KissBlade]

You can just make the rime hauberk or the skin anyway. Just because you have the bless doesn't mean you can't do those things. As I said, the bless really doesn't cost you anything to take even. Heck if you want awake so much, you can still tweak the scales a bit to take have an awake pretender. Just take death 3 and misfortune 1.

[AreaOfEffect]

Just insert this into any mod. Not only will it fix the gold exploit, but it will also fix the not-nearly-as-game-breaking leadership exploit.

#selectmonster 1652
#gcost 250
#poorleader
#end
#selectmonster 1653
#gcost 250
#poorleader
#end

[Tifone]

Nice. Maybe QM could consider putting it in the CBM

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Baalz

slaves if you can't even manage that. Seems clever to alchemize 6N into a battle shroud, until you realize you just basically got the same thing as the hydra skin only with the added cost of fielding the blessing. The only other thing it possibly makes sense to alchemize is water gems which probably does make sense if you have the blessing anyway, but is a weak argument to justify the whole blessing on.

I like KissBlade's suggestion of dormant E9N4S4 better than my own initial thought of E9N4, given the weak MR on the Skrattir. Using a shroud in this case instead of the Hydraskin armor gets you no poison resistance and weaker regen, lower enc, better MR and relative immunity to skelly spam (vs. having to forge boots of the messenger), and saves you a nature gem (or lets you use up whatever random air/water/fire gems you happen to have picked up from cross-path sites or events). IIRC the Prot is equivalent in either case.

In any case I've already made my point: shrouds do not introduce a "serious bottleneck" in your armor production. The master lich might still be preferable on other levels.

-Max

[KissBlade]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

I like vfb's suggestion of dormant E9N4S4 better than my own initial thought of E9N4, given the weak MR on the Skrattir. Using a shroud in this case instead of the Hydraskin armor gets you no poison resistance and weaker regen, lower enc, better MR and relative immunity to skelly spam (vs. having to forge boots of the messenger), and saves you a nature gem (or lets you use up whatever random air/water/fire gems you happen to have picked up from cross-path sites or events). IIRC the Prot is equivalent in either case.

In any case I've already made my point: shrouds do not introduce a "serious bottleneck" in your armor production. The master lich might still be preferable on other levels.

-Max

Isn't the s4n4e9 dormant my suggestion? =( Though the way I see it is, I wouldn't bother with the shroud on skrattis and just use the bless to power your regular jotun jarls while gearing your skrattis with the gems you get. This way you're not bottlenecked by anything. Have gem deficit? get jarls, have gold deficit? Get skrattis. Meanwhile you have high powered niefel jarls to do your heavy lifting too!

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by KissBlade

Isn't the s4n4e9 dormant my suggestion?

Er, sorry. I'm going senile. Have edited my post to a correct attribution.

Originally Posted by KissBlade

=( Though the way I see it is, I wouldn't bother with the shroud on skrattis and just use the bless to power your regular jotun jarls while gearing your skrattis with the gems you. This way you're not bottlenecked by anything. Have gem deficit? get jarls, have gold deficit? Get skrattis. Meanwhile you have high powered niefel jarls to do your heavy lifting too!

I could see it going that way, and copper plate/rime hauberk/etc. might be a better choice than shroud in many circumstances. I'm a big believer in preserving strategic flexibility.

(Repeat: I had not realized how amazing blood thorns on skrattis were until Baalz's post made me check them out. Blood thorns totally free you from worrying about encumbrance, even with Quickness, and skrattir w/ Quickness don't really need an AoE weapon. That means you can make unusual choices for your slots. I do like the thought of Winged Boots on these fearsome skrattir, or Cloud-Trapeezing Niefel Jarls.)

-Max