SE5 - Strategies

[Kana]

One thing I think that needs to be addresed in combat is scanning and jamming. I think that this needs to be broken down to different levels and types.

And I think there needs to be combat range on the scanning.

Cause I feel that you should not know your enemy ships just because your fighting them.

Does this sound like an interesting idea ?

I agree...this sounds like a wonderful idea...will add alot more elements to the areas of intelligence and such...also with the ability to retreat from combat...you could send in a fast scout...to get intel as well...

Kana

[davewski]

That sharing aspect is actually one of the potential issues. I'll use a specific analogy.

I play Star Wars Galaxies. In that game various character classes have abilities and can use specific combat maneuvers giving them certain advantages in combat. People can create macros string together various maneuvers so that pushing one button executes the entire sequence. Eventually, people figured out that by combining classes 'X' and 'Y', using technologies '1' and '2', and stringing together maneuvers 'a' and 'b', they could create macros resulting in nearly unkillable, unbeatable characters in PvP. This has resulted in situations where most everyone who wanted to compete equally in PvP had to adopt similar methods. It basically eliminated any type of real decision making. People just went into combat and executed the same macros over and over. This made a lot of people very unhappy. The game developers have had to play catch up ever since constantly revising weapons, classes, and maneuvers to try and balance out the situation.

That type of situation could occur in a game like this by allowing people to create fully automated scripts for simultaneous combat. People are smart and eventually someone would figure this out. Anyone who wouldn't have a similar script could be at a severe disadvantage. People would share the scripts with each other and the game could become a cookie-cutter game where most people take race X or Y; techs 1,2,3; build designs a,b,c; use combat scripts A,B; or most likely lose a multi-player game.

It might not actually happen, but it is a subject to consider. Personally, I like the current system of manually programming maneuvers for ships and fleets. It's a bit more micro-management, but it creates uncertainty. Choose the wrong tactics or strategy and you lose. Sometimes you lose even when choosing right. That's what war is all about.

[tesco samoa]

right now you do not manually enter ship movements or battle plans. it is all done by the computer.

[Tanus]

Davewski - Tactical combat mode where you can input your orders is not currently possible in multiplayer - only single player. As such, the computer deals with all combat already - we're just trying to make it better and smarter for SEV.

-----------------------------

As for what I'd like to see, I must agree with most of what's been said already.

First, with regards to retreats, if your ship is faster, and hasn't been sucked in close to the enemy, it should be able to get away, rather than trapped in corners, as has been said.
As for slower ships able to retreat, this should also be possible so long as you are able to delay the attacking warships long enough for the ship to make its getaway.

For example, it would be worthwhile to place a few escorts with a convoy of colony ships, and if attacked, the escorts would attack and attempt to delay the attacking ships long enough for the colony ships to get enough head start to escape from the attackers. Of course, if the attackers were strong enough to just blow through your escorts, they're not going to be slowed down enough to prevent them catching the fleeing non-combatants.


Secondly, initial 'placement' of ships and bases definitely requires more input. Even if there is not a manual placement option (which would be very nice, and could be set for a fleet when it's created or modified), there needs to be more specific options for where they are located in battle. I just recently had a battle, where I was defending a warp point, and while my mobile defences were enough to win the battle, all of my static, immobile defenses - bases, etc - appeared in the bottom corner of the map and had no chance to fire at all.
Being able to specify that a base is orbiting a planet or defending a warp point would be very helpful in that regard.

Thirdly, I definitely like the idea of either sub-units (Groups of ships that always stay together) and general orders that prevent weaker ships from charging ahead of the main fleet and being slaughtered on their own.

[Antonin]

I think the option to retreat would be great. Too often, combat in SE4 is an all or nothing thing. One fleet or the other is wiped out, and combat ends. I think a fleet should automatically disengage once its strength is worn down to a certain point.

[se5a]

how about if you can STEAL the scripts via intel!!!!!
(and even ship capture)

I dooubt we will have to worry to much about them becomming "cookycutter" type things, since the game is to fluid, your going to want to use a diferent stratergie for glassing plannets than you would if you wanted to capture it or blockade it. same with WP. are you going throug the wp or blockadeing it? its going to be diferent. then your probibly going to want to change it slighly depending on what empire your expecing to come throuhg the wp. are they using APB? nulspace? missiles? ppb? *gulp* are they armed with computer viruses? are they using more shields or more weapons?

[Q]

Regarding retreat I would suggest to make it an option in the game setup.
I wouldn't like to see the same annoying ship chasing as in SE III again.
And in SE IV the main problem IMO is ships running into a corner and staying there awaiting to be killed instead of running away in a circular motion. Sometimes fast ships do that in SE IV and then they survive the combat even without retreat option.

[dogscoff]

Regarding retreat I would suggest to make it an option in the game setup.
I wouldn't like to see the same annoying ship chasing as in SE III again.
And in SE IV the main problem IMO is ships running into a corner and staying there awaiting to be killed instead of running away in a circular motion. Sometimes fast ships do that in SE IV and then they survive the combat even without retreat option.

Like I said, a (moddably) huge combat field would solve both problems at a single stroke.

[Fyron]

Like I said, a (moddably) huge combat field would solve both problems at a single stroke.

Yesterday in the chat, Aaron said that we will be able to mod the size of the system maps in SE5. Presumably we could do the same for the combat map.

[davewski]

I am not referring to tactical combat. I am talking about simultaneous combat in the multi-player game. Everyone must choose tactics and targeting priorities for each ship and fleet prior to engaging combat. Otherwise the computer simply uses a default. The manual decisions people must make about how to design ships, fleet organizations, targeting orders and movements, and how to integrate them all together decides who wins combats in the multi-player games.

That is the manual aspect I am referring to.