Play The World

[Zapmeister]

What do the ACTUAL PLAYERS of the game, of which Stormbind is not one, think we should do?

I vote for a restart.

[Reverend Zombie]

I vote restart.

[ May 24, 2004, 11:53: Message edited by: Reverend Zombie ]

[Vynd]

I vote to restart.

[ May 24, 2004, 11:58: Message edited by: Vynd ]

[Tris]

and honor, keeping my word, has always been more important to me than ethics.

Um...Keeping your word would be a form of ethics, wouldn't it?

Besides which "honor" and the kind of behaviour that apparently went on in this sad episode are mutually exclusive.

Perhaps the other players continued to talk to Norfleet because they assumed that there was no way anyone would ask for information in the manner that he did, when they were actually playing in the game.

Having read the GoneGold thread, I think I'm with Zap.

PLEASE explain all this, Norfleet. I'd much rather think everyone was a nice person...

[Firebreath]

Oh dear....lol.

Originally posted by Tris:

quote:

---

and honor, keeping my word, has always been more important to me than ethics.

Um...Keeping your word would be a form of ethics, wouldn't it?

---

I think the difference here is in personal values and generally accepted western societal values. Ethics, as far as I am aware, doesn't come into play when you're playing a game! I.e. games give you the opportunity of being a rascal, theif, murdering, lying son of a mother - when in fact you are quite the opposite (one would hope) professionally.

But going back to what seems to be the problem here. I havn't read the ice and fire, but let me see if i can get this straight (correct me, succinctly, if i'm wrong):

Norfleet is accused (a big word) of the dastardly crimes of:
- Deceiving others about his true identity
* I can see nothing wrong with that - missdirection and missinformation are perfectly valid things to do in war. That's what spies, illusions, bluffs, etc are all for. Norfleet's just taken it slightly further.
- Lieing
* Now there's a serious crime. I only try to lie when things are serious and I have no other choice. But if someone chooses to lie in a game - so what? What does it matter?

But the biggest allegation of all (correct me if i'm wrong) is of:
- Breaking delusions as to the infalliability and unsheakable integrity of human nature.
* Well, this kind of thing hurts. You start to lose faith in your own core values. It's not nice. But surely, it's much better that it happens in a game, than in a serious situation?

Maybe Norfleet lied. Ok. Maybe he decieved you. Fine. Maybe he even broke your faith in something you held dear. If that's the case, nourish your hatred of him. Plan your vengeance. Keep it close to your heart. Try out new strategies. When you are ready - you can face him. For the best effect, as Cainenhill suggested - face him 1 vs 1, so that the true power and satisfaction of sweet revenge can be brought to bear, that of having beaten a rascal honourably.

But as Norfleet said about 5 times - there is a game to be played! I don't know where Graeme's accusations came from, though as far as I'm concerned Norfleet doesn't need to cheat to win a game . There is a big, big difference between cheating and behaving like a rascal. If the sole premise of not wanting to play this game is that:
1)Norfleet said he would modify the map (bearing in mind he could have modified it to his own advantage without saying anything)
2)Norfleet acted in a manner you found distastefull in a different game.
Then I do not believe there is valid reason for believing that Norfleet would stoop to cheating (which has a very closed definition. Things like lieing, deception, etc do not come into it).

Now, if no one has any further objections, could we please get this matter out of the way and play - we've been waiting for 2 weeks just to start this game, god knows how long it's going to take to finish it...

[ May 24, 2004, 14:50: Message edited by: Firebreath ]

[Tuidjy]

I do not want a restart. I do not see what that
would change except waste some more time. I do
no believe that Norfleet has done more than
disable a few starting locations, and even if he
had given himself every single spell and gem at
the start, I would still rather play the game than
not. I cannot understand why it matters. I do
not get 1cm shorter every time I fail to win a
game of Dominions II.

As for him playing under a different name, and
talking with other people about the game, I find
it slightly off-taste, but more because of what
it says about his need to hear about himself,
than because of an in-game advantage.

So, lets get on with it?

[Vynd]

While I understand the sentiments of the people who want to just get on with this game already, I think you're overlooking a serious problem: Graeme, I think Zapmeister, and quite possibly others, don't want to play anymore. Better to restart without them, I think, than continue as is, have them drop out, and end up with lots of AI players right out of the gate.

Nor do I think it is particularly unreasonable of people to decide they don't want to play with Norfleet after hearing about this other incident. He lied. He behaved unsportingly. He abused other people's trust. People have every right to be upset about that sort of behavior and decide not to associate with someone who engages in it. Really, it's only to be expected. And even for folks like me who had no stake in this Fire and Ice game, it makes it rather difficult to trust the man.

[Reverend Zombie]

Originally posted by Tris:
PLEASE explain all this, Norfleet. I'd much rather think everyone was a nice person...

Please see my signature.

[vigabrand]

I'd rather get on with the game. I have no problem with this incident as it doesn't show cheating. Underhanded trickery maybe, but not cheating. If you don't want your plans getting out, don't tell anyone. This is the internet where everyone is anonymous. I'm not saying you deserved it, but in the land of anonymity, I tend to keep my secrets to myself. I also understand that certain people may not want to play with someone who would do this, that is fine too. I have no problem with that. But the fact is, he didn't cheat. Until I hear of actual cheating or discover through my own interaction with Norfleet that he is a cheater, then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as far as manipulating the map. I won't trust him in game, but then again I don't really trust anyone. Once again, I say play on.

Vig

[Yvelina]

I vote for keeping the game going. Do you guys really think that Norfleet cheated? I am sure that he can just let someone whom everyone else trusts just look at his game.