Soo... When is the next patch?

[NTJedi]

Kristoffer O said:
I'm inclined to avoid random pick-this-and-that items. They are in my opinion rather (insert stronger wording if you wish - I don't mind) boring.

It is not that difficult to come up with hundreds of items without having to resort to genericisms (is that a word?). Better to add one hundred new items and randomly disable 80% of them each game if you want replayability.

I actually find games with only fixed items more limited. For example using my example formula above will allow the game to provide over 20,000 items or more and can be accomplished more easily than creating 400 fixed items. I believe having both the randomly generated items and the fixed items provides the best of both worlds.
Personally I enjoy games where each time I play I know characteristics of the game will be unique. Unique new quests, unique new maps, unique new AI behaviors, unique new items, optional victory settings, unique new places/buildings, unique new monsters, etc; .
When you take those features above and set them as fixed quests, fixed map(s), fixed AI behaviors, fixed places/buildings then the games replay value decreases the same as providing each gamer with unique experiences.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Take a look at the Exiles/Avernum series by spiderweb software. They manage to provide quite a lot of replay value without random items or maps. The game world can actually change if you take too long to get something done, for instance, so you can take things in different directons.

There are cases for both situations, and both types of players. But personally, I find games with random items less immersing and decrease the original play value (and hence the replay value) considerably. If they're partially random, like as in Sacred or Divine Divinity, I can live with it. But if they're near completely random, as in Diablo 2, they never manage to hook me.

On the other foot, there's the whole niche of Roguelike games, but I won't get into that right now. I don't have that much to say.

[Sombre]

I rather liked the magic item creation in master of magic, which was of course a pick and choose approach.

[K]

Humakty said:
I want alpha centauri 2 !!
A side question : does anyone succeeded in making AC 1 run under XP ?

There is a file on the Firaxis website that makes it work.

Check the first download.

[Saarud]

Well I agree that totally random items is abit less immersing. It would be nice if mages/crafters could craft their own creations as well as those already in the game. The items could be designed kinda like spaceships are designed in SE4 where the crafter makes the decision what stats/abilities to add to that item. The more skilled the crafter is the more points to use and the more gems/money that are used even more points to use for crafting the weapon. Or something like that.

[Arralen]

K said:

There is a file on the Firaxis website that makes it work.
Check the first download.

I have run it successfully without that patch - that patch makes it impossible to play MP against anyone not using it.
'Twas something about "ForceOldVoxelAlgho" or something in some ini file, and tinkering with desktop settings IIRC.
PM me if you can't get it to work and I'll try to look it up.

[Meglobob]

Random items in Diablo/Diablo 2 were great. There was always the surprise factor when you got something better than you already had and the Yip factor when you got a outstanding magic item.

What really made it great was any magic item you did not want you just sold, so you got a reward for every magic item.

It would be nice if in Dominions you had a alternative to throwing a magic item you don't want away. The ability to sell it for gold or get 1/2 the gems back, rounded down.

Just for the record, I have thrown a ring of wizardry away on purpose...

[Humakty]

Arralen said:

I have run it successfully without that patch - that patch makes it impossible to play MP against anyone not using it.
'Twas something about "ForceOldVoxelAlgho" or something in some ini file, and tinkering with desktop settings IIRC.
PM me if you can't get it to work and I'll try to look it up.

Thanh you both, I'll give it a try tonight, and PM you if I fail once more.

[NTJedi]

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
Take a look at the Exiles/Avernum series by spiderweb software. They manage to provide quite a lot of replay value without random items or maps. The game world can actually change if you take too long to get something done, for instance, so you can take things in different directons.

A fixed map, with fixed towns and fixed NPCs mean that by the third time you play the game you know where to find the important quests, where to find the important NPCs/Monsters and best locations for advancing your character. THE MAIN MYSTERIES within the game are gone after a couple games!

Lazy_Perfectionist said:
There are cases for both situations, and both types of players. But personally, I find games with random items less immersing and decrease the original play value (and hence the replay value) considerably. If they're partially random, like as in Sacred or Divine Divinity, I can live with it. But if they're near completely random, as in Diablo 2, they never manage to hook me.

On the other foot, there's the whole niche of Roguelike games, but I won't get into that right now. I don't have that much to say.

I'm not saying only random items, I'm advising both for a game. A game with 10,000 items which uses the example formula I provided has greater replay value than a game with 200 fixed items. On a game with only 200 fixed items there's a more likely chance the gamer will find the best weapon and armor which then removes one of the fun features known as treasure/weapon hunting. Not much to chat with family and friends about when you've found XYZ weapon which has also been found several times by 20% of other gamers.
What's great about Dominions_3 is the quantity of the game content and 10,000 items, monsters, maps, npcs, quests is greater than 200 of the same.

[Kristoffer O]

> ... [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img]



> Now my new question is.....

> (Question to the devs) (But you can stil answer if you think you know the answer)

> What have you learned from this game?

No idea. That it is fun to work on a game people like, that you stop work when people complain, that JK is less bothered by agitated forumwriters than me, that JK gets too little appreciation, that we are more creative whern we work closer and not like dominions now is done (development has come to a phase where i mostly add stuff according to old concepst and JK fixes old boring issues, nbot veery creative for him), that people doesn't know what is most fun for them, that people doesn't know what is fun for others, that people are incredibly clever at finding powerful strategies, that you can achieve a lot just by doing what you like, that game developments is either creatively hindered by a structured development plan (no fun to do chores in the beginning to make a base for the game as it should appear two years from now) or hindered by unhinged initial creativity and absence of initial structures (dom3 still suffers from some of the developments in dom-ppp), that my ambition has increased by each version for good or bad (why is MA pytium not more bysantine in feel), that my increasing ambition hinders creativity, that we ...

Alot I guess. A lot more I guess. Even more I assume.

> And how will you implement all the positive feedback received from this game into something better or something in a greater scale?

Not at all But all impressions, opinions, great and not so great ideas have probably been internalized by some hidden and hopefully mighty (at least lvl17) part of my mind.

We do not, however start out aiming for a greater scale. Start small and let the organics of creativity work - grow, grOW, GROW ... ping: game finished! Blubb, blubb, flush! Game doesn't stop growing.

> Will this game evolve into something that appeals more to the "average gamer" or will it get even deeper in the sense of having an even richer strategical game play?

If Microsoft buys the rights to the game and makes a quick paced and graphically pleasant RTS I would be most pleased It would be fun to see what they would come up with and how much they would cut away or brutalize

> What worries me is that such a good game, such great, deep and interesting Lore and strategy system be forgotten or left un-polished. As I've said before in my second post in this forum this game could be the UTIMATE game if polished correctly.

Polish is just polish. I have no imminent need to get the game polished. I have recieved plenty of nice feedback and is content with that. I'm not particulary interested in getting rich, nor in getting famous. I'm quite happy with being the creator of a game and a world that a couple of thoudsand likes and some hundred perhaps rates as the best game ever. Of course it would be nice if more people felt the same, but I think I prefer to have a couple of hundred students that thinks I'm a good teacher that has helped them.

I don't think dom3 will be forgotten. I will not forget it