Suhiir's Revised USMC OOB #13

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by cbreedon

Suhir

I have a question on this. Are the 'recon' units in the oob representing Force Recon/MARSOC or the battalion recon elements?

Force Recon/MARSOC

"Battalion recon elements" are nothing but normal Fire Teams/Squads/Platoons temporarily detached from their parent unit and given a recon/scouting mission. These are represented by the "Scout Teams".

[cbreedon]

Thanks for the info

I thought that the 4 recon battalions were a bit more 'trained up'. They have normal organization as the standard rifle platoons etc but were a little bit better. At least that is what a friend of mine who was in the 3rd recon battalion tells me :-)

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by cbreedon

Thanks for the info

I thought that the 4 recon battalions were a bit more 'trained up'. They have normal organization as the standard rifle platoons etc but were a little bit better. At least that is what a friend of mine who was in the 3rd recon battalion tells me :-)

They are, but for game purposes they're lumped in with Recon or Scouts. If you buy a Recon unit they have great vision and some special weaponry; buy a Scout unit they just about as effective (game wise) and a LOT less expensive.

Adding Division Recon to the game would just confuse non-jarheads.
Besides, those Division Recon formations get formed and disbanded, exist in one division and not in another, and vary between platoon/company/battalion size, more often then most grunts change their socks.

[cbreedon]

So if I wanted to mod your mod and add them.. I would just use a regular rifle platoon and add say, 5 to exp and morale???

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by cbreedon

So if I wanted to mod your mod and add them.. I would just use a regular rifle platoon and add say, 5 to exp and morale???

It depends, if you plan to use them in the MARSOC role I'd modify Recon units with vision=15 (except snipers and FOs).
If you're using them as just "better" scouts then look at the Rifle and Recon units available for the date in question and decide if you should perhaps alter a weapon or two (it's unlikely Division Recon would have Predator ATGMs vice AT-4s or that Div Recon would carry M249's).

1986-2020:
SEAL +15/+15
Recon +8/+8
Scout +3/+3

So yeah +5/+5 sounds about right.

But, a +5/+5 modification to a unit/formation isn't really all that significant in game terms. About 1 time in 10 or 20 a unit will be pushed into the next better experience or morale category (i.e. green->trained->vet->elite).

[Suhiir]

With the release of the WinSPMBTv8 (2014) patch the default USMC OOB is my OOB variant set to WinSPMBT standards.

I ought to know, I built the new OOB and picklists.
I'd like to give Don and Andy a BIG THANK YOU allowing me to do so.

That said there are a few "minor but significant" areas where I personally disagree with WinSPMBT standards, thus the next v8 update to my OOB variant is strictly in VIOLATION of those standards.

The areas of disagreement are almost entirely with regard to weapons data:

1) Rifle accuracy is doubled from 1 to 2 (this does not make them twice as accurate, I don't know the exact math involved but I suspect it's on the order of 10%).
2) The default range of assault rifles is 8, I increase the M16A4 to 9.
3) Multiple independently operated automatic weapons in Rifle Squads (i.e. M1918A2 BAR (3)) are currently given no increase in accuracy but 50% higher HE Kill. I feel the accuracy per weapon used should be increased but the damage remain unchanged. Thus they will hit more frequently but no harder.
4) The default range of MMGs is 24, I increase this to 27. I also increase the accuracy of MGs in general. Any infantryman will tell you that next to artillery MGs are the terror of the battlefield, in the default game they just plain aren't.
5) .50cal AAMGs have the same default range as tripod mounted HMGs, whereas medium AAMGs have a reduced range to MMGs. Thus heavy AAMGs are reduced from 40 to 32.
6) Much like MGs Gatling type weapons are not awe inspiring thus their accuracy is increased. (I'd love to do away with separate HE and AP/Sabot ammo for them but game mechanics make this impossible).
7) The cost calculator adds about 45 points to any unit with TI vision, regardless of unit type. This is fine for a 500-point MBT, but I feel a bit excessive for a 31-point infantry squad. Thus some unit costs are manually adjusted.
8) UAVs are very expensive units due to size, EW rating, and vision. The costs of these units is manually adjusted.
9+) Other similar tweaks.

All that said I'd like to get and idea how much interest there is in my continuing to post my USMC OOB variant. As stated, the v8 upgrade IS my OOB set to WinSPMBT standards.

[cbreedon]

I am definitely interested. I have been overwriting the standard oob with yours since you started. If you don't publish your variant anymore I will probably manually incorporate most the list into mine anyways. I have appreciated your work and hope to see it continue.

[cbreedon]

Looking at the OOB what is the difference between weapon 25 and 9? They both say M16A4 ACOG.

[Suhiir]

Weapon #09 = Primary Infantry Weapon (used in weapon slot #1)
Weapon #25 = Secondary Infantry Weapon (used in weapon slots 2-4)

Primary Weapons get a modifier to hit based on the number of men in the unit, Secondary do not. Most OOBs use a Primary Weapon as an alternate weapon for things like ATGM teams, but because they are in weapon slot #2 (usually) they have a rather poor base accuracy (1) so they're relatively ineffective. By creating a Secondary Weapon for use in this slot the teams can be semi-useful as infantry.

[shahadi]

When loading out units for a scenario, primary weapons occupy the first weapons slot from the Mobhack Unit tab, and verification of weapon status maybe obtained in the Weapons Class from the Weapons tab. Right?

Now, to load out a unit from the D-key in the Editor, it would be wise to check the Mobhack for primary/secondary weapon status, correct?

This is really good stuff Suhiir, thanks.