A simple thank you

[Boron]

Arryn said:

The Bnet servers validate the keys for MP play, not the client-side software. So pirate keygens and codes are only useful for SP. But that's not all. D2 has a very effective CD copy-protection scheme as well. Blizzard went to great lengths to layer their anti-piracy defenses.

So do you think it worked well then ?
I thought so i just ask because i remember that Blizzard thought that closed B-net is save in general but after some time the weirdest hacks occured and ruined the game when there were suddenly weapons which did 2000 or more damage etc. .

And could Illwinter/Shrapnel then do something similiar that at least the people who want to play MP have to buy Dominions 3 ? I think this would result in at least slightly higher sales too .

[Alneyan]

As it happens, Dominions already has a specific protection for MP play, since the 2.08 patch; I do not know the specifics however.

[Arryn]

Boron said:
And could Illwinter/Shrapnel then do something similiar that at least the people who want to play MP have to buy Dominions 3 ? I think this would result in at least slightly higher sales too .

Shrapnel isn't remotely close to large enough to be able to afford to create the server farms needed for even a small-scale Version of that sort of thing. If they cannot afford to invest the resources to provide electronic downloads, nor are willing to take the risk, what makes you think they could do centralized server gaming (which is costlier and riskier)?

[Arryn]

quantum_mechani said:
My most successful thread... I wonder why I'm not proud...

You had really good intentions. It's hardly your fault that the thread got hijacked into a discussion of what they could do rather than what they have already done. OTOH, it seems inevitable, given that thoughts of the past often spur people to ponder the future. And thus one topic leads to another. Heh. Looked at that way, you should have known better. It's all your fault!

[Annette]

Arryn said:

Shrapnel isn't remotely close to large enough to be able to afford to create the server farms needed for even a small-scale Version of that sort of thing. If they cannot afford to invest the resources to provide electronic downloads, nor are willing to take the risk, what makes you think they could do centralized server gaming (which is costlier and riskier)?

I'll restate what's already been said. We do offer some of our games via download. The reason a select few of our titles are available by download is not because we "cannot afford to invest the resources." I think our stance on this has been addressed in earlier Posts. Are we willing to "take the risk"? What's risks are you referring to? The risk of a high rate of customer dissatisfaction?

[Gandalf Parker]

Boron said:
One question on protection :

Cause this is the only protection that works i can think of but i have to little knowledge to know if it works at all or if there is nothing you can do against Piracy in various forms .

It will help if you keep in mind that there is "copy protection" against legal owners making casual copies for their buddies, and there is "crack protection" against pirates. Dominions does have a level of crack protection involved with the serial key which fights pirated copies. But they do not try to stop you from putting the game anywhere you want or making backup copies.

[Arryn]

Annette said:
What's risks are you referring to? The risk of a high rate of customer dissatisfaction?

Fine, I'll rise to the bait by responding with "what dissatisfaction?" You mean the "dissatisfaction" of all the Dom 2 players who download the demo (which someone pointed out is about the same size as the regular Version of the game), fall in love with it, and then buy the game? The "dissatisfaction" of all the Dom 2 players who have to resort to masses of player-written documentation because of all the critical info needed to be able to successfully play the game in MP that is not present in the manual, said maunal being a key reason which Richard (and others) cite as to why a fully-working Version of Dom 2 isn't made available for download? The "dissatisfaction" in having to download a large file, when the demo is of comparable size? The "dissatisfaction" in having too many people queued up waiting to download patches, when I've yet to see anyone complain about such a thing?

So I ask you, what "dissatisfaction" are you referring to? So far, the only "dissatisfaction" I've seen mentioned on this forum is from people wishing for, what to them is, a more convenient and speedy way to get the game they want.

Yes, Annette, I'm well aware of Shrapnel's stance. Excuse me if I don't happen to agree with it, nor the justifications that have been used in support of it. You're entitled to your position. And, while I honestly like Shrapnel and its contribution to the gaming industry, please don't expect all of your customers to meekly accept everything that officials of Shrapnel say as Indisputable Truth merely because you (that's a general 'you', not you personally) say it. I gave up blind obedience and unquestioning belief well over three decades ago when I broke with Catholic church doctrine, and over two decades ago when I left the Republican party. Even in the military one is permitted (to a point), and even encouraged (to a degree), to question what one is told.

[Boron]

Gandalf Parker said:

It will help if you keep in mind that there is "copy protection" against legal owners making casual copies for their buddies, and there is "crack protection" against pirates. Dominions does have a level of crack protection involved with the serial key which fights pirated copies. But they do not try to stop you from putting the game anywhere you want or making backup copies.

Is the key somehow checked ?
Cause there are key generators for almost everything .
For Diablo 2 e.g. though thnx to the CD-key check each time you played in battle.net at least if you wanted to play MP you were almost forced to buy a copy afaik .

If anyway possible i would wish a small official server for Dominions 3 anyway and if Illwinter would then check the cd-keys would hopefully result in a bit more sales .

[Arryn]

Boron said:
Is the key somehow checked ?

Yes. I said that in my Last reply to you.

Boron said:
If anyway possible i would wish a small official server for Dominions 3 anyway and if Illwinter would then check the cd-keys would hopefully result in a bit more sales .

What makes you think that it might increase sales? What makes such a system better than what you can now do with Dom 2?

[Tim Brooks]

I hesitate to post here, as my Posts usually end discussions for some reason, but here goes...

please don't expect all of your customers to meekly accept everything that officials of Shrapnel say as Indisputable Truth merely because you (that's a general 'you', not you personally) say it.

Well, since Arryn thinks we (that's a personal 'we', not a general 'we') are lying to all of you I will answer her arguments for the others here that want more information as to our philosophy regarding downloads and who might entertain that we know a little about this business.

1. We have offered downloads in the past and still do, although our download games are also offered as physical product now. The games we offered as purely downloads are the worse selling games we have ever had. Why is that? We believe there are two main reasons. One, the fact that a whole lot of people don't like downloads (see 2 below) and two, the ease of piracy as the manual is in electronic format.

2. The games that are offered as either download or physical product are sold as physical product 4 to 1 over downloads. Why is that? Our guess is most people want physical product. When they spend money, they want something they can hold in their hands.

3. Downloads as a percentage of those games unit sales create over 10 times the customer service requests as do physical products. Add to that the increase in behind the scenes man hours of maintaing the servers for downloads and you have a big expense in downloadable products. This is not a bigger expense than offering physical product, which is quite expensive also, but on a par. So if we aren't saving money and we get more sales with physical products, why do downloads? Due to these facts, in June, I (that's a personal 'I', not a general 'I') made the decision that we would offer no new downloadable games. Expansions, however, may still be offered as downloads, we haven't decided yet on the avenue to take with them.

Shrapnel isn't remotely close to large enough to be able to afford to create the server farms needed for even a small-scale Version of that sort of thing. If they cannot afford to invest the resources to provide electronic downloads, nor are willing to take the risk, what makes you think they could do centralized server gaming (which is costlier and riskier)?

We are working on the finishing touches on our first MMP offering with our own dedicated servers (look for an announcement later this month) so we are probably a wee bit larger than Arryn thinks.

Oh and Arryn, if you are still reading this, please stop the flaming that is going on in this thread. Or I will stop it. And that is a personal 'I'.

There are some good discussions here folks. Please don't let my post end them.

Regards,

Tim Brooks
President
Shrapnel Games, Inc.