Mod: Worthy Heroes 1.8

[Gandalf Parker]

There is also a mod called Epic Heroes. I run Epic Heroes and Worthy Heroes together. I havent checked to see if one might be overwriting the other so I might not be getting all the heros I would if I edited it. But at least Im pretty sure it doesnt crash. I also like to add Mytheology (more pretenders) and Magic Sites Mod (more sites) which kindof blows the balance thing. But great for solo play.

Toss in a bunch of nation mods and its a whole new game.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by militarist

I wrote it in сbm thread.. but it's more a question for for this thread, obviously. Heroes is a stong, funny element of a game wiсh doesn't really affect the ballanсe a lot, but really makes game muсh funnier. I believe the more heroes the better. I сan not understand why Hinnom has so many сool heroes..3?4? and there are still nations like Helheim where it's <3. Making at least 4 for eaсh nation would be good, even 5 would not сhange something. And getting to aссount total domination of order 3, more heroes will just make luсk more valuable, that's is not unreasonable.

Actually, I made heroes long a while ago (year 2007) to be exact to fill up some nations that have <3 heroes. I have been talking about QM about including them, but the recent "no-clam" huffbuff delayed their inclusion. He said on IrC that he will get some of them in for the next version. I had screenies on the page 3 and 4 of this thread, but the hosting site has replaced them with ads.

I've compressed the screenies into a .zip* file below for all those who are intrested. I'll probably do some futher cleaning up on them and remove some #onebattlespell autosummons, since QM does not like those, but the concepts are somewhat sound.

*There is one screenshot missing of the Helheim hero, Hanged King.

If QM is intrested, I've gotten some further hero ideas now that I'm a lot more familiar with the nations in question.

At least Helheim should get somekind of "Hel" as an heroine. I mean, the whole nation is named after her!

[Gandalf Parker]

Maybe you can contact the Epic Heroes guy for some that dont fit the new Worthy Heroes balanced theme. Id really like to see more along that line.

[llamabeast]

I thought Hel was a place (a bit like hell)?

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

I thought Hel was a place (a bit like hell)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_%28being%29

She could a good pretender choice, but because Helheim lacks heroes, I might go into a more "inspired by Hel" territory. Perhaps somesort of sorceress that is half-dead and half-alive (like literally) who once ruled over the underworld and serves the awakening god to get her queendom back.

I'm a bit dissapointed on the fact there is not Thor/ Loki/ Tyr/ Hel equivalents in dom3, but if their powers and the concept is a bit watered down, they could make for some excellent heroes.

[Gandalf Parker]

Would be a good suggestion to the Mytheology mod (which adds pretenders). Particularly since you wouldnt have to be too concerned with watering down and balancing then.

[Squirrelloid]

Arguably Thor is just a Titan pretender. I mean, he's a mountain and lightning god. The niche is filled.

I don't know what you think you'd do with Tyr. He's a god of justice and oaths, which is... largely irrelevant to statting him out. So arguably he can just be some random titan chassis, say General of the West, or whatever else floats your boat.

There's an argument to be made for adding the Lord of Rebirth to the vanheim pretender set as a Baldr representation.

The only reason Hel is hard to represent is because of gender. I mean, PoD sort of covers the thematic territory rather well...

Loki can possibly be shoe-horned in somewhere, although he probably has the best claim to not being representable by the game. (Its not clear to me which nation should be allowed to choose such a pretender. Vanheim, because he was adopted as half-brother by Odin? But he's trying to destroy the aesir and vanir and will fight against them at Ragnarok, so... Niefl/Jotun/Utgard pretender?)

The point of pretenders isn't to represent specific divine beings, but to represent common concepts of divine beings. That we have an 'its obviously Heimdall' pretender is kind of ridiculous, since he's a minor god hardly worth including in the game, and with basically no analogs in other myth sets, and isn't notably different from other choices already available to Vanheim. (Oh gee, another AE titan chassis, how lovely).

[Gandalf Parker]

What would be really fun is to somehow provide Loki a random thing that fills in his "trickster" persona. All I can think of is an external program that can be run on pre-exec or post-exec switch to randomize something and write the change to the .dm file (which does seem to work on some things).

Getting too far OT. but.. do .dm files have an option to read in other files? chaining? it would keep the original .dm cleaner

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Arguably Thor is just a Titan pretender. I mean, he's a mountain and lightning god. The niche is filled.

Does he ride a chariot drawn by immortal goats? Can he smite niefelheim giants with Mjöllnjir? Sure, the Titan might *play out* somewhat like Thor equivalent would but it would not feel like Thor for us who get our kicks from stuff like this.

But you are very correct about their rebundancy as pretenders. As cool as a Thor pretender would be, he would not give anything that Vanheim needs out of a pretender and would thus be never used. Hel would make a poor goddess for Helheim because they have no uses for a Titan chassis with D magic.

Hence the hero idea. The idea of heroes is that they are certain know characters of myth. Thor would make a fine hero, air and earth magic, custom modded throwable mjöllnjir that smites giants. Sure he won't be a size 6 titan or a "god", but anyone who would see him would recognize him and could get the kicks out of kicking a*s with Thor.

As for Loki, he could a be "unique" hero for all Vanheims/Helheim and niefel nations. If another nation gets him while he in the service of another, he goes *boof* (like a unique that was wished for) and starts serving the other nation. It could be kind of annoying, but the bizarre rarity of that event and the utter thematicness of it should balance that aspect out.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

Does he ride a chariot drawn by immortal goats? Can he smite niefelheim giants with Mjöllnjir? Sure, the Titan might *play out* somewhat like Thor equivalent would but it would not feel like Thor for us who get our kicks from stuff like this.

Mjolnir is a metaphor, in that particular aspect for lightning, and its impact is thunder. The Titan pretender throws lightning bolts = Mjolnir. Just because its listed as lightning instead of a hammer takes nothing away from it - we've merely deconstructed the metaphor. (Kind of necessary since there are lots of Thor equivalents, none of whom use a hammer as a metaphor for lightning. Eg, Zeus).

I grant there are no goats pulling a chariot. Imagine that as his own personal air ship or something, so you'd have to forge it for him. Or perhaps that's his version of casting flight on himself.

A generalized pretender idea will never meet all the specifics in their specific aspect for a given mythological figure who exemplifies that type. But with a little imagination all the essential bits will be found, even if it requires deconstructing the metaphors built into the myth.