Beware of Ashdod

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

That's a good point, Gifts from Heaven is 100 range, and isn't very easy to counter. Though, if they do get Air, a Storm would render them pretty ineffectual at range, with a base Prec of -3.

I'll let one of my favorites go here - if you know your enemy is going to script to stay away from a range 25 spell, have your casters start more forward, and do Attack a Turn once or twice behind your line, and then start casting. This should generally get them into range of anything that was placed in the far back of the enemy field.

In a big battle, he's going to anticipate you doing this and will have a portion of his troops also placed forward ready to munch your forward-placed casters. Those troops are a sacrifice gambit because they're well within range of all the nasty spells he's trying to avoid. Anyway, point being that don't forget to guard those forward-placed casters well.

-Max

[MaxWilson]

Congratulations on your victory! I'm glad to see that Stellar Cascades was as killer as it usually is. Mages rock.

Out of curiousity, were any of his 19 commanders mages and if so what were they casting? (I.e. what did he have researched?) And how many commanders/mages did you have?

-Max

[AreaOfEffect]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

Out of curiousity, were any of his 19 commanders mages and if so what were they casting? (I.e. what did he have researched?) And how many commanders/mages did you have?

He indeed had a lot of mages. 18 out of 19 in fact. 3 Zanummites, 6 Emites, 2 Talmai Elders, and 7 Adons. The Adons where equipped with various magic items, nothing decked out completely and nothing rare or unique. I must admit that the spells seemed low level. Some self buffs, frighten, raise dead, and not much else. He didn't have an H3 so he spent two rounds casting blessing while I spent two rounds beating down his guys.

I should have taken more losses had he prepared his best spells, but I can tell you for sure that all units in range of the astral mages were all pretty much dead in the same round they were targeted with steller cascades. Most other units took half a dozen rounds to kill because they were out of range, that's quite a difference.

[hunt11]

This is a more general strategy, but with Ashod it becomes very important. Don't let them get Forge of the Ancients up. If they do, then they will be making so many SC that they could use them in squads, and still have some to spare.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by hunt11

This is a more general strategy, but with Ashod it becomes very important. Don't let them get Forge of the Ancients up. If they do, then they will be making so many SC that they could use them in squads, and still have some to spare.

Yeah. In fact, Zamzummites make pretty fair thugs even *without* items, in a communion'ed squad. [Communion Master, Summon Earthpower, Invulnerability, Soul Vortex, Personal Luck, attack closest] while the slaves do [Communion Slave, Blessing, Body Ethereal, attack closest]. Toss in a Phoenix Pyre or Fire Shield if you have a Crystal Matrix for a Rephaite Sage (and at least 4 slaves).

I don't know if that's cost-effective on a gold basis but it's cheap in gems.

-Max

[MaxWilson]

Hmmm. Interesting. How many mages were you using to spam Stellar Cascades? I think this is still on-topic because it affects how scary Ashdod is and what it takes to counter it cost-effectively. He had 70-odd units (call it 10000 gold investment, and almost as much in resources) plus 19 commanders, but most of the commanders seem to have been pretty useless (who builds Emites? who sends Talmai Elders into battle without any evocations?) so perhaps we should eliminate them from the cost equation. In any case, you completely wiped out 10000 gold of cap-only sacreds plus commanders, using 5000 gold of recruitable-anywhere sacreds plus an unknown quantity of mages, some gems, and Evoc-5.

I agree that it's more like fighting summons or thugs than regular units.

This just might be enough to tempt me into MP. I've never really been interested before (time constraints) but maybe I can get someone to play some duels with me. Caelum vs. Ashdod maybe? Mammoths, lightning, and flying raiders/recruitable thugs seem like a promising set of options.

-Max

[AreaOfEffect]

About 17 Nahualli and 7 Lizard Shamans. I wanted to be excessive. I lost to the same army about 80 sacreds and about another 80 slingers 6 turns before. He lost 16 units and some worthless undead spite my thunder strikes and astral spells. That was not a cost effective battle.

[AreaOfEffect]

The range of Steller Cascades is 30. Those extra 5 squares are quite helpful. You can't use the attack-attack-cast tactic while the Nahualli are in turkey form, as they will fly right up to a big scary giant. For everyone else it shoudl be fine if you keep them well guarded.

MaxWilson, Gifts From Heaven is another great spell. It's real problem isn't in it's effectiveness. It's problem is in it's accessibility. Earth and Astral is a lot harder to find then just astral. In the middle age you would have to avoid playing 16 of the 23 nations. Out of the 7 remaining nations, one is Ashdod. Further more, only 3 of the 6 other nations can cast the spell using non-capitol only mages. Lastly, only the Starspawns of Ry'leh and the Warlocks of Abysia even have a chance of actually having E3S1, though those chances are slim to say the least. Meaning that everyone else has to either boost with earthpower, start a communion, or wear earth boosters.

Yet, if we are going to bring the spell up, then yes it is quite effective against giants, or anything for that matter. Another spell to keep in mind is Bane Fire, 53+ AP damage.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect

The range of Steller Cascades is 30. Those extra 5 squares are quite helpful. You can't use the attack-attack-cast tactic while the Nahualli are in turkey form, as they will fly right up to a big scary giant. For everyone else it shoudl be fine if you keep them well guarded.

Well, it's more a general trick, and I haven't really worked with Mictlan yet, so they are an obvious exception.

As far as everyone else goes, of course you want to arrange so that the mages will still stay behind your lines. This is generally not altogether difficult to accomplish, at least I've never had any significant issues with blocking. Obviously, the worst problem is if the enemy is so close up, that your line doesn't move forward much. Your mages aren't too likely to run past your line, but they will be pressed up against it from behind, and may not move forward as much as you'd like them to. On the bright side, if they can actually block your whole line, they are most likely using more chaff than thugs, so you've already made them shift to a strategy that is less effective overall.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

As far as everyone else goes, of course you want to arrange so that the mages will still stay behind your lines. This is generally not altogether difficult to accomplish, at least I've never had any significant issues with blocking. Obviously, the worst problem is if the enemy is so close up, that your line doesn't move forward much. Your mages aren't too likely to run past your line, but they will be pressed up against it from behind, and may not move forward as much as you'd like them to. On the bright side, if they can actually block your whole line, they are most likely using more chaff than thugs, so you've already made them shift to a strategy that is less effective overall.

Rather than forcing a strategy shift, I think you've merely proven that "archer decoys" are good policy against mages too. I.e. if you plan to lurk at the back of the battlefield you need some decoys to prevent mages from closing during the first couple of turns and/or soak up AoE fire.

If everyone here aware that the difference between "Cast Spells" and "Stay Behind Troops" is that "Stay Behind Troops" will advance behind troops in lieu of casting spells that take him over 100 fatigue? Could also be useful in this situation, instead of [attack, attack, cast].

-Max