The AI... when will ìt earn its "I"?

[oleg]

It helps to play "no warp points" in AIC - AI has far fewer options where to move ships and its attack is far more concentrated. Yes, AI is still brain-dead but it is less obvious in such game setup.

[pathfinder]

In my current AIC game (no warp points) the Jaenar (sp) were ripping me a new one in the one sector where we met. The one reason I can figure why they kept coming up a bit short was lack of supplies. Once I had a system scanner up & running I noticed they were awfully short of supplies when they ended their dash for one particular planet. And of course with their mindset they going after that one planet ad nauseum....and kept coming up short.

[ December 21, 2003, 15:22: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Grandpa Kim]

Originally posted by Gryphin:
My thoughts on AI
AI = Algorithm Intellect

The issue behind Algorithm Intellect is the amount of time and money it does take to code it. You mentioned one situation that has occurred. We have all seen bizarre behavior on behalf of the Algorithm Intellect in SEIV. How many lines of code would it take to cover that one situation? How much are you willing to pay for it? I feel the game is a very fair price for what it provides. I fear an Algorithm Intellect able to consistently challenge a human would cost 1000s of dollars.

Hope this helps.

So just add this to the list of broken promises (from the computer industry in general)? Promises like "reliability", "service" and "user friendly".

No, Gryphin, if you build a game with an AI, then it should work properly. After all programmers have been building games for a couple decades now; surely they have learned something!

This rant is not aimed at Aaron who is one of the most "aware" programmers around but at the industry in general and those who make excuses for them. Sorry Gryph, just couldn't let it lie.

Kim

[Starhawk]

You know I have never had this problem that you guys talk about and I just have the Demo which has a more limited AI then the full game.

Normally when an enemy fleet comes in it does attack a colony UNLESS it detects a larger defensive fleet then it thinks it can handle OR unless a battle occurs somewhere else in their space and they think they need that fleet to defend themselves.

So maybe what you consider it just being stupid is actually the AI redeploying it's fleet to protect it's self from an enemy elsewhere that you are not aware of.

Because like I said the AI acts rather smart around me .

[Master Belisarius]

Sure, the AI is not as good I would like. But,
playing with 3 or 4 good TDM AIs (United Flora,
EA, Aquilaeian, etc), small galaxy, high AI bonuses and 3 starting planets, usually I had challenging games.

The AI had big problems when need to take many decisions (for example, what planets protect or what planets attack). But in games with not many systems, the AI plays far better.

[Gryphin]

Grandpa Kim,
No need to apologies. You are expressing your perception. I am not a programmer. I do remember the times I tried to write “rules” for solitaire games with miniature table top soldiers. After about 3 pages it became clear that it was unfeasible to be complete. There was always one more condition that had to be accounted for. I feel I can imagine how much code must go into any games Algorithm Intellect. Grandpa Kim, what have you done along these lines? Accusing the industry of broken promises is easy. Surely you must have something to base your perceptions on. I am interested in hearing more. Do you have some incite as to what it takes to write a superb AI? After all, I could well be wrong.

Folks,
I ask again, what do you think? How much code and how much time would it take to make the Algorithm Intellect so good you could not find enough problems in SEIV or any game to complain about? Are you willing to pay $100 dollars for a game that has an Algorithm Intellect that can challenge you? How about $200? Let’s say you are willing to pay that much, how many others out there are willing to pay that much?

[Fyron]

The biggest challenge to programming an AI for a game like SE4 is the fact that it has to be able to cope with random and arbitrary changes to the data files. Games that have 0 moddability are often able to (not any guarantee) have stronger AIs because programming time does not have to be spent making it adaptable to changes to the data files.

[Atrocities]

It has been my experience that if you play with medium/medium or medium/high the AI does put on more of a challenge.

[Grandpa Kim]

Gryphin, my opinion is more of a state-of-the-world perception than one directed at any specific niche of any specific industry. You have hit on one world-wide attitude: If it's too hard, it's okay to do a poor job. The other is money: do as little as possible to make as much as possible. Both cases mean "I'm breaking my promise".

I work in new housing and believe me housing and computers are running neck and neck in screwing the public.

I am not a programmer either, but I know my limits. I cannot program to my own satisfaction. Those who have chosen that profession have taken on that job. Now, gentlemen, please do your job!

But I do have some ideas about how to program an AI. I think before you get down to specific cases, you must give the AI a plan to work from. Give it goals, make it aware of common (and not so common) problems and provide general solutions. For instance running out of supplies is a common problem. The current solution is to send the ship(s) back to a resupply depot. There are at least four other solutions to that problem! This is a beginning only, but something the AI can always fall back on.

I'm sure the programmers out there can pick this to pieces... and that's the problem. Rather than say, "Damn it! There's got to be a way to make this work." they say, "It's too hard." You can take out the word programmers and replace it with any profession you like; it will still be true.

Okay, enough of that rant... and thread hijacking.

[Wardad]

no AI yet...

It's an Algorithm Stupidity System.