General Questions About Things.

[Atrocities]

I was wondering about this Last night as I watch Nemesis again. (Better then I recall).

You have several differant types of Fleets, so how many ships make up each type of these:

Task Force
Battle Group
Assualt Fleet
Fleet

About Rank, how does this work?

Captain
Fleet Captain
Commadoore
Rear Admiral
Admiral
Fleet Admiral


Wouldn't a Fleet Captain be an admiral? How many ships does a Fleet Captain have control over?

What do Commadoores have rank over? Bases, or ships?

So on and so on.

[PvK]

Are you asking about Star Trek, TNG, SE4, Earth navies, or what?

Task force suggests a force assembled for a specific task, usually with multiple types of forces, and can be mixed branches (e.g. naval plus marines) as well.

Battle group similarly would vary - it just implies a group worthy of fighting a "battle" by itself.

Assault fleet, spelled correctly, implies a force specifically for an assault, which might tend to mean landing an invasion force.

Fleet could mean either a group as in SE4, or all of the ships of a nation, or all of the ships of a nation in a particular theatre (e.g. Baltic Sea Fleet) or at a location (e.g. Earth Defense Fleet).

Military nomenclature likes to pretend to be authoritative and meaningful, whilst at the same time meaning very different things in different times and places. A lot of military culture and language has to do with insisting on something absurd and inconsistent, and insisting it go unquestioned.

Captain is generally a naval rank of the commander of a ship of any size.

Fleet captain is something specific, and could mean different things.

Commodore is a higher rank than captain, and is generally a rank of someone who commands a group of vessels, or is responsible for a region (i.e. in charge of the vessels which are assigned to a region). A commodore's flag (HQ) might be located at a base or on a ship, and can move. Sometimes if a flagship is damaged, a commodore (or admiral or whover is in charge) will "transfer his flag" to another ship, generally supplanting the captain of that ship at least for major decisions.

Rear Admiral in the US navy can either be sort of like a commodore (just a rank higher than captain and higher than commodore) or can also be someone higher than such people. Those are called "lower half" and "upper half" respectively, but I doubt that halfsies silliness gets absorbed into Star Trek.

Admiral used to be sufficient to describe the commander of a whole navy. It can also be a rank above Vice Admiral, and in general means someone of very high rank in the navy, who may move between HQ assignments, and is likely to be temporarily assigned as the commander of a large and important operation, or be in command of a regional fleet, or something.

Fleet Admiral in the US navy means the highest ranking admiral in the entire nation's navy. Commander in chief of the navy.

PvK

[Atrocities]

Thanks PvK.

[geoschmo]

U.S. Navy Rates (Ranks) and Insignia

[Atrocities]

Thanks Geo.

[Atrocities]

* The rank of Fleet Admiral has been reserved for war time use only. The Last Fleet Admirals were in World War II. Fleet Admirals during that war were Chester W. Nimitz, William D. Leahy, Ernest J. King, and William F. Halsey.

Very Interesting.

I wonder how much Pay Rate grade 011 is?

[President_Elect_Shang]

O11 pay: A lot I assure you, but it also depends on time in service.

Don’t take this wrong PvK but military nomenclature never pretends to be authoritative and meaningful. It IS authoritative and meaningful. The terms used by one branch may be different than that used by another but this same trend can be seen in spoken language. A fag as opposed to a fag for example, both are English but have very different meanings.

Most all military language is derived from tradition or acronyms that are or where in use. Even the simplest of commands that you see on TV have roots that can extend back to the days of pre-gun powder combat. By way of comparison is the classical wedding, it is steeped in tradition and very meaningful.

In short your observation that “A lot of military culture and language has to do with insisting on something absurd and inconsistent, and insisting it go unquestioned.” Could not be any further from the truth.

[Parasite]

In the US Navy, Commadoore is not a rank as such, it is a title. Any Captain placed in charge of a group of ships (a task force, destroyer squadron, ect.) is is called Commadoore to differentate from the run of the mill Captains in charge of each ship.

The person in charge of a ship is called a Captain even if his rank is not "Captain". He could be an ensign, or even an enlisted man. (as an asside, Dry services also have a rank of captain. If on a ship they get a brevit promotion to major (or whatever) while on the ship. There can only be one Captain.)

Any Multiple named rank will be called by the highest rank included. A Lieutenant Commander is called "Commander", a Rear Admiral is called "Admiral" when talking about or to him.

[Yef]

Now I'm even more confused with those Naval ranks. Heck, why couldn't they have it like in the Army.
Army ranks are completely clear and in logical order (including Major General and Leutenant General ) but those guys in the Navy don't have their feet on the ground, literally.

[PvK]

Shang, I was engaging in some sarcasm there. Perhaps I would be clearer to say that military terms sometimes have clear and accurate meaning only in a specific context. They can mean very different things in different branches, different nationalities, and other changes of context. In the context of people inside the organization, they're expected to learn the current and applicable definitions, to take them seriously and with an obedient and respectful attitude, and not to question them or complain if they conflict with other contexts. For example, jokes about "lower halves" of admirals would sometimes not be officially appreciated.

PvK