An idea for stronger use of "dominion"

onomastikon · #1 January 28th, 2004, 05:52 PM

I would like to see the religious aspect (dominion) play a stronger role; I like the idea that troops get +1 / -1 morale depending on dominion, but I find that not enough. Would you like / dislike the idea of having additional bonuses for higher dominion, such as a percent chance of scoring double damage or a "natural 6" (on the d6 roll) for combat damage or spell effects when cast / used in higher dominions, such as:

+1 dom = 0%
+2 dom = 1%
+3 dom = 2%
+4 dom = 4%
+5 dom = 6%
+6 dom = 8%
+7 dom = 11%
+8 dom = 14%
etc.

or something similar.
what do you think?

Endoperez · #2 January 28th, 2004, 06:49 PM

Marignon Fires of the Faith can have dominion 30+...

Even if it would be appopriate to give bonuses to units in their dominion, that would only help defensive game and I don't think longer games would make Dominions II any better.

ywl · #3 January 28th, 2004, 11:42 PM

There are already many ways to use your dominions.

1) It's possible to kill an opponent with your dominions. It does happens, even in an MP game.

2) You pretender is much stronger inside his dominion: +20% hitpoints, +1 strength, +0.5 MR per candle. If you choose to use a non-combating god, your loss. Your prophet has the same benefit also. So, you can make something with a little bit more hitpoints (e.g. Golem, Icedevil, or even a Firbolg) as your prophet and send him/her/it out to kill.

3) If you use the special theme Golem cult, all your constructs will have increased hitpoint inside your dominions. Many other themes are also dependent on your dominions.

4) For Caelum (and to a lesser extent Jotun and Abysia), the temperature of the province matters a *lot*. So, your dominions is your life.

5) Many high level global rituals already work according to dominions strength.

Psitticine · #4 January 29th, 2004, 02:17 AM

Another quick FYI: the Fires of Faith aren't actually supposed to cause so high a maximum Dominion. I believe it'll be capped off at a max of 10 in 2.07, just like all other Dominion types.

diamondspider · #5 January 29th, 2004, 05:07 AM

Interesting topic for me. When I first found out about how "little" the spread of dominion effects the game, I was a bit disappointed also.

However, I've come to change my mind for the most part. As other posters in this thread pointed-out, there are a lot of advantages to it. I also didn't see anyone posting a confirmation that it raises income to have a higher dominion as is stated in the Sabre Cherry's newbie thread/sticky but this would make it even better. Not to mention the fact that you lose instantly if your dominion gets wiped from all provinces.

In any case, the effect is a lot stronger to the outcomes of games than I thought at first and I find myself building more and more temples the more I play.

It is true that if all of the players prefer the same climate, aren't using death/miasma or drain, that the difference can be somewhat small in some cases. But +1/-1 to morale is already a fairly big deal.

I'd like to ask again for a confirmation or denial on the income increase issue. It would be nice to have some increase with higher domain and it would be nice to know how much the increase is.

P.S. I'd like to see a bit more support for defensive play as Dom2 currently seems to reward aggression a bit more that I'd prefer. Defensive options are nice in these games (see Kohan for an example of a game that is bettered by allowing defense as a viable, if not ideal by any means, alturnative). One possibility here I'd support here is to have it be +2/-2 on morale if dominion exceeded something like 6 or 7.

[ January 29, 2004, 03:24: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

#6 January 29th, 2004, 05:14 AM

AFAIK there is no direct corellation between Dominion Strength and income. Other than the scales you choose and having them impact the provinces you control. Of course Miasma is the one that counters this argument, but it says specifically what it does in the theme description.

IIRC You do need at least a 3 Dominion in order to get up to a 3 in scale. So if your dominion strength is 2, it will only go up to 2 Order even if your scale is Order 3 as it requires at least 3 Dominion to 'come into affect'.

I believe that is what Cherrypie was trying to say.

[ January 29, 2004, 03:17: Message edited by: Zen ]

diamondspider · #7 January 29th, 2004, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zen:
AFAIK there is no direct corellation between Dominion Strength and income. Other than the scales you choose and having them impact the provinces you control. Of course Miasma is the one that counters this argument, but it says specifically what it does in the theme description.

IIRC You do need at least a 3 Dominion in order to get up to a 3 in scale. So if your dominion strength is 2, it will only go up to 2 Order as it requires at least 3.

I believe that is what Cherrypie was trying to say.

Good to know (although a bit disappointing).

Here is the quote from the sticky (under general effect for dominions):

"Provinces get -X unrest per turn, +Y% income and +Z% production for each level of Dominion (please reply if you know X, Y, or Z)."

So, it seems that it is in error and could, perhaps, be changed.

[ January 29, 2004, 03:18: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Saber Cherry · #8 January 29th, 2004, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by diamondspider:
I also didn't see anyone posting a confirmation that it raises income to have a higher dominion as is stated in the Sabre Cherry's newbie thread/sticky but this would make it even better. Not to mention the fact that you lose instantly if your dominion gets wiped from all provinces.

I just tested... dominion strength does not appear to affect gold or resources. Population also does not seem to affect resource production.

#9 January 29th, 2004, 05:26 AM

Hrm. I just did a test based on Dominion Strength on home province as it raised and I saw no change. I don't know exactly what Cherrypie was trying to say there, but I have never had my dominion impact my income directly outside of scales or in the case of Miasma.

diamondspider · #10 January 29th, 2004, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:
Originally posted by diamondspider:
I also didn't see anyone posting a confirmation that it raises income to have a higher dominion as is stated in the Sabre Cherry's newbie thread/sticky but this would make it even better. Not to mention the fact that you lose instantly if your dominion gets wiped from all provinces.

I just tested... dominion strength does not appear to affect gold or resources. Population also does not seem to affect resource production.

Thanks! Good to know.

I vote for slightly increasing the power of dominion somehow.

Between all of the sneaking abilities and the general feel that you have to play as aggressively as possible at all times, it would be nice to get a bit of extra benefit out of more deliberate strategies that are more based on dominion and a bit less on military strength or stealth.

The game is called Dominions after all!! I feel this feature really sets the game apart. Besides, temples and taking the time to preach isn't exactly cheap on resources.

The only problem I can see is it would give more benefit to those who use destructive scales.

Tricky issue.

[ January 29, 2004, 03:34: Message edited by: diamondspider ]