No one does it like the Bull...

[olaf73]

Finally got a few wins under my belt (vs easy AIs, heh) with Jotunheim and Ulm, so now I want to try every nation to see what I like best.

Well, the first one I have tried so far was Pythium. The Bull seemed like a fairly unique (lol the fertility thing) strong combat pretender, so I chose him.

So far, he is stomping ***. I played around with the Son of Niefel and Titan pretenders as Jotunheim/Ulm, but this guy is way better, at least early. I am sure his relative power declines a lot in the later game as he cant use many items. He is a frigging monster. As long as I have positive dominion he is almost unstoppable. He takes out entire squares of troops per turn, and then some once he goes berserk. He has fairly low defense and protection, but a boatload of HP.

Anyway, what other combat pretenders are similar to, or better than the Great White Bull?

TIA
olaf

[Japher]

I have never played the Bull, but 80 points for a new path and only NN to start is rather steep... you may get blown away by magic if the only combatant you really have is your pretender.

[ywl]

Originally posted by olaf73:
Finally got a few wins under my belt (vs easy AIs, heh) with Jotunheim and Ulm, so now I want to try every nation to see what I like best.

Well, the first one I have tried so far was Pythium. The Bull seemed like a fairly unique (lol the fertility thing) strong combat pretender, so I chose him.

So far, he is stomping ***. I played around with the Son of Niefel and Titan pretenders as Jotunheim/Ulm, but this guy is way better, at least early. I am sure his relative power declines a lot in the later game as he cant use many items. He is a frigging monster. As long as I have positive dominion he is almost unstoppable. He takes out entire squares of troops per turn, and then some once he goes berserk. He has fairly low defense and protection, but a boatload of HP.

Anyway, what other combat pretenders are similar to, or better than the Great White Bull?

TIA
olaf

Give him "Personal Regeneration" - Nature 2 / Enchantment 2. He'll be even more unstoppable. The only one comparable to the White Bull is (really) his brother the Black Bull of Pangaea. He has Berserk +7 instead of +5, starting with Nature 1, Blood 1 instead of Nature 2, and has no support bonus.

The two bulls are new in Dom 2. They're new even in gameplay as there were no combat monster gods like that in Dom 1. A Wyrm is comparable in terms of survivability but it doesn't trample and thus isn't as destructive. The Great Mother tramples but she's not as powerful as the bulls. The dragons are powerful but they're not as destructive.

It doesn't matter whether they're still powerful in late game. For combat gods like this, you don't invest too much into them. You just send them out to attack to get an early start. It they got killed, you call them back - there is no huge loss. You invest in your scales and economy, using your army and national mages to win.

[Xavier]

I like the Vamp Queen, if you give her at least a point of water and preferably one of earth as well. Then research Alteration 2 (quickness and stoneskin - Alt. 3 for Ironskin) and she can take out virtually any indie in her dominion on her own.

I quite like the dragons too, but you have to be more carefull because they can accumulate afflictions. I was testing a green dragon as a pythium pretender (SP) recently and he lost both eyes in like his second fight.... That's what you get for letting yourself get surrounded by heavy infantry. I find using the breath attack before engaging the enemy really helps (they break and rout sooner). That and casting personal regeneration before the fight.

[Saber Cherry]

The bulls are monsters. A bull with Earth 8, an amulet of resilience and ring of regeneration becomes virtually unstoppable...

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
The bulls are monsters. A bull with Earth 8, an amulet of resilience and ring of regeneration becomes virtually unstoppable...

Until he tries to trample Jotuns. The fatigue cost of trample is based on the size difference, and it takes a lot of trampling to kill even a few Jotuns.

It'd be pretty expensive to get either bull to Earth 8, though. You don't really need that much Earth just to cast Invulnerability, so unless you're getting it for your national sacred troops, I'd go with no more than 4 Earth 6 Nature. Plenty for Summon Earthpower, Invulnerability, Strength of Gaia, Personal Regeneration (optional but cumulative with SoG's regen and regen items; but you only need one regen to get affliction resistance). Elemental Fortitude depending on what you're facing. All of this is in the first 3-4 levels of Conj and Alt (except Personal Regen, which is Enc).

Nature-9 is viable too, but you can get hurt easier without Invulnerability. You do have Gift of Health later (and Personal Regen to cut down on afflictions in the first place). Given the descriptions I would have expected the Bulls to recuperate without GoH, but oh well, they're pretty good as they are.

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Given the descriptions I would have expected the Bulls to recuperate without GoH,

Actually, I think they do.

[olaf73]

Ok a couple of more things. I played a bunch of different bulls today, mostly just seeing what types of armies he could take out on his own.

I found that he did very welll versus nearly everything, independent-wise that is.

A couple of things killed him. Solaris, some named badass knight. He had incredible gear and sick stats.

The other thing was a pretty powerful Sorceress, who was leading a crusher and some other stuff.

Then, I entered him in the death match (never a good idea, I know) just to see how he would fare. He lost in the first round to the Vampire Queen. She cast Decay and then 'kited' the bull for lack of a better term. The bull would hit her a lot, but she kept dancing around and I guess was getting HPs back through lifedrain.

The other problem I ran into, was after most fights he would get an affliction. This is not a big problem most of the time, as he heals them on his own. Except the damn never healing wound.

Anyway, it sure is a fun pretender to play around with.

olaf

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
It'd be pretty expensive to get either bull to Earth 8, though. You don't really need that much Earth just to cast Invulnerability, so unless you're getting it for your national sacred troops, I'd go with no more than 4 Earth 6 Nature.

No, 8 Earth is just for the +8 protection (7+5+8=20 once he berserks). That lets you start taking indies from turn 1, on an indy strength of 7. Though it's much safer to wait for regeneration.

[Jasper]

Arcoscephale's Shedu is also similar.