Cheat detection overzealous?

PhilD · #1 June 10th, 2004, 12:32 PM

I was playing solo the other day, and it was one of my first turns with the new 2.12 patch (though not the first turn), in a game that's been going on for about 80 turns before under 2.11.

Well, as my first message, I got "Message from Host" telling me that Arcoscephale (that's me, of course) has had a sudden increase of wealth, and that I was probably cheating.

OK, it's nice to try and detect tampering, but all I had been doing was alchemizing gems, using my Alchemist's Stone and Alchemist. I ran the game for a few more turns, alchemizing again, and didn't get the same message again - maybe I had been doing it more intensely the first time, I don't know.

Still - in a MP game, it would be very bad for the game to tell everyone that Nation X is "probably" cheating, when they're just alchemizing. I can understand that, with Alchemy being one of a few orders that are instantly effective, it may be a bit harder to keep track of everything, but I'd like for it to be a bit safer.

Oh, and even if the player can justify himself and explain he's just doing some alchemy - other players should not have access to that information (plus, it could become the standard excuse of any real cheaters - though if some player has to explain he's been doing heavy alchemy turn after turn starting turn 10, people might have difficulty believing him).

Gandalf Parker · #2 June 10th, 2004, 02:03 PM

@PhilD: Good Catch

@Norfleet: Nice Try

I would suspect that the russian testers were getting paid.

So of all the things in the patch this is the item that you feel didnt get tested? VQ, Pangaea, Pangaea:CW, the various crashes/leaks and windows hosting problems, on 3 different operating systems. Apparently no one played deep enough into the game to test the gold-making cheat-check.

I agree this needs fixed. Anything else?

Johan K · #3 June 10th, 2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilD:
OK, it's nice to try and detect tampering, but all I had been doing was alchemizing gems, using my Alchemist's Stone and Alchemist. I ran the game for a few more turns, alchemizing again, and didn't get the same message again - maybe I had been doing it more intensely the first time, I don't know.

If you find out how to recreate it I'll be glad to know how you did it.

Pickles · #4 June 10th, 2004, 03:27 PM

I set up a new game with all 17 races as humans(Me) to have a look at something (assassin accesss IIRC) and was told that Ulm was cheating from turn 1. Presumably this is a bug too. I did not play any turns & have no idea what the various pretenders were & I logged it as a quirk.

Pickles

Johan K · #5 June 10th, 2004, 07:42 PM

I assume Ulm was using a Vampire Queen designed under the previous Version. That is seen as cheating as she was cheaper back then.

Tenryu · #6 June 11th, 2004, 01:19 AM

My feelings on this is that to even have "cheat detection" function in single player is ridiculous, pretty funny actually.

tinkthank · #7 June 11th, 2004, 01:24 AM

Phil was talking about the implications for MP. If the game thinks cheating takes place when people alchemize, then the parameters are very suboptimal; I would rather have *no* cheat detection if that includes defining cheating as a great increase in money. Just one of these Messages could really ruin the morale and spirit of an MP game.

Norfleet · #8 June 11th, 2004, 01:50 AM

Meh. I wish I could say I was surprised that yet another thing in the new patch doesn't work.

You have to ask....what exactly has this new patch given us? Certainly not the Skratti or the Great Warlock back, that's for sure. Did people even test this? You know, I hear that in the Soviet Union, programmers used to deliberately put bugs into the code, and if the beta testers didn't catch it, they were shot! Something to think about: In Soviet Russia, program tests you!

Johan K · #9 June 11th, 2004, 04:08 PM

There is a problem with the cheat detection and the alchemist's stone. The alchemist's stone gives slightly too high bonus when converting fire gems into gold and this triggers the cheat detection.

So bear in mind that the owner of the alchemist's stone has the right to cheat in Version 2.12.

Norfleet · #10 June 13th, 2004, 06:20 AM

It seems to occur if the Alchemist is holding the alchemist's stone when he performs the alchemy, but is no longer holding it at the end of the turn, such as if it has been stored back in the lab after alchemizing.