Oceania can't forge Clam of Pearls?

[ioticus]

I'm trying Oceania in my current game vs. the AI and I cannot forge Clams of Pearls. Is this a bug or intended?

[Alneyan]

At least in Oceania 2.15, Clams have become Water 2/Nature 1 items, so only some of your mages will be able to forge them; I am not sure if it has been changed in Oceania 2.16 (where the Siren becomes the Nereid).

[ioticus]

Alneyan said:
At least in Oceania 2.15, Clams have become Water 2/Nature 1 items, so only some of your mages will be able to forge them; I am not sure if it has been changed in Oceania 2.16 (where the Siren becomes the Nereid).

So I take it this will be a permanent change for Dominions 3? That's a great idea; I'm all for it. What do you think?

[NTJedi]

I like the idea, I also believe each nation should be limited to a fixed number of these gem producing items... perhaps 25. It's sad hearing how people win games by focusing just on making tons of clams.

[magnate]

But if you're focusing so much on making clams, you aren't using your resources to expand or defend, and surely the other players must take some responsibility for letting you get away with that? I mean, I've never tried it, but it must take a considerable number of turns for clamming to reach game-winning proportions (50? 60?), so what were your opponents doing in the meantime? If they just let you get on with it, you should be commended for your diplomacy rather than slated for your clamming! If you managed to hide the fact that you were doing it and still appear strong enough to keep them at bay, that sounds pretty good. In my limited experience of MP the game is over before anybody has the chance to make more than a couple dozen clams.

CC
[edit: that doesn't mean the games are <60 turns, just that people don't focus so much on clamming because they're busy summoning and forging etc.]

[Zooko]

In my opinion, it is a problem with the "all vs. all" format. In that format, if you attack to clam-hoarder you might win, but you will be temporarily weakened by the war effort, and your *other* neighbor can move in and conquer you.

This is not a problem in a "proper incentive for war" format such as one team vs. one team or pentagram.

At least not in theory. Nor, in practice, have I had a problem with clam-hoarding in any of the multiplayer games that I've played. However, this is only a small sample and it's possible that I just haven't happened to encounter a clam-hoarding enemy yet.

The same applies to many of the other alleged balance problems in Dom2. Life-draining weapons are too powerful? Gift of Reason? Hoburg Militia? Not in my experience. Your Mileage May Vary.

Maybe after I finish my current multiplayer game I should organize a "Test of Balance" game in which there is a Proper Incentive For War format and people are invited to try to abuse Dom2's balance problems as much as possible. :-) We won't use any mods, either, just plain 2.16.

[rabelais]

Zooko's analysis is as usual, correct, but that's a much harder problem to fix than clamming as such.

The question I have is:

What is being done with wish in Dom3?

It may be that clammers win by spamming ether warriors in other games, but in EVERY clamming endgame I've been in, it is wish Wish WISH (generally either doom horrors,+power or gems for faster cycling and Ghostriders, et alia)


Rabe the Returned

[Endoperez]

Well, have you checked the Oceania mod? Clams become WWN. Oceania is preview of DomIII.

[shovah]

ive just tried my first wish heavy game vrs the ai and won easily ( doom horror spam with some sphinxs ( draw fire ) and a gatestone

[Endoperez]

When you can have that stuff, or spam Doom Horrors (!), you have already won. I find struggles with limited resources much more interesting. However, I rarely manage to actually complete a game.