I call this a bug... Is it?

Tuidjy · #1 April 11th, 2007, 02:37 PM

Here is the setup. Two huge enemy armies, one sitting in a castle,
the other in the open. A task force teleports and besieges the
castle. On the same time, the armies move against each other.
The army in the castle someone avoids the siege, somehow misses
the incoming horde, and the two armies end up trading places.

I call it a bug. And a rather serious one, that I think just
lost me a game. I realize that one could say that this is just
the engine working as designed, i.e. armies moving into friendly
provinces. What do you think?

Nick_K · #2 April 11th, 2007, 02:59 PM

Well, I might agree that it's a bug, in that in produces behaviour that doesn't fit the gameworld.... but I wouldn't agree that it's a 'serious' one. I imagine that this sort of event would only occur quite rarely, especially as the two armies usually fight in one province or another.
Presumably the issue is that being besieged stops move orders from being given but not from being carried out if they're already assigned.

PvK · #3 April 11th, 2007, 03:13 PM

I think more study is in order to determine if it was caused by the designed chance that armies don't meet when moving in opposite directions (which I don't think I've ever seen with two large armies) or some other cause (due to the teleporting group?).

BTW, I assume after this move, the teleporters and friends are beseiging the castle, not actually inside it, correct? And of course, stealth wasn't involved, right?

Tuidjy · #4 April 11th, 2007, 03:47 PM

No stealth, and yes the castle was besieged. And there should be no
chance that armies over 600 men with 50 commanders each miss each other.

Wish · #5 April 11th, 2007, 03:59 PM

i am confused at what you are saying...

an enemy teleporting task force would land and besiege, your task force would land inside the castle.

a break seiging army would fight before the storm castle took effect, and if they won, the storm wouldn't happen.

what it sounds like is you broke seige, lost, your army routed, the stormers won.... and that would mean the teleporters are routed as well.... unless they are your army beseiging the castle, in which case thats weird.

we need more information or at least to have it worded better.

Ironhawk · #6 April 11th, 2007, 04:22 PM

I found this bug a while back. What happens is that the server does not recheck movement orders for an army unless that army is attacked. Therefore, if you teleport in forces that would disrupt movement without actually attacking the force in question, it will have no effect.

In the case I tested there was only one province that an army could move through in order to get to a second prov. But I teleported an SC in to cap the middle prov. The army moved "through" that province regardless of the fact that I held it. It is the same scenario for you except that the province in question just happened to be containing a castle (which is what prevented combat with the main force from taking place).

It's definitely a bug. Whether anything will be done about it is anyone's guess. I brought it up... I dont even recall how long ago.

Ironhawk · #7 April 11th, 2007, 04:24 PM

Oh, and as for the armies "switching places" thats not technically what happened. The order of events would have been as follows:

*Magic Phase: Teleporters gain control of castle prov
...
*Friendly Move Phase: Your army moves to the (now friendly) castle prov
*Attacking Move Phase: Enemy army moves into your (now vacant) prov

Tuidjy · #8 April 11th, 2007, 04:42 PM

I think that Ironhawk got it EXACTLY right. But you must agree
that it makes no sense, as the last step is basically:

The enemy army moves, unopposed, out of a besieged castle.

MaxWilson · #9 April 11th, 2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

PvK said:
I think more study is in order to determine if it was caused by the designed chance that armies don't meet when moving in opposite directions (which I don't think I've ever seen with two large armies) or some other cause (due to the teleporting group?).

I keep hearing veterans say they've never seen armies miss each other, but since becoming aware of the possibility I've seen it a couple of times with small armies. Yesterday in a SP game (which is all I play) I had 1 Atavi chieftain coming out of a castle miss 40-odd C'tisians attacking the castle.

I'm not sure what formula the game uses to determine whether armies meet, but it's not a bug, just part of the difference between IGO-UGO vs. WEGO. You can only be in one province each turn, and although Illwinter decided to allow for the possibility of armies on the move meeting up and fighting, it's not realistic that they're going to do so every time. It would be a nice game option though if you could specify whether a given army is *trying* to engage a moving enemy (lots of pickets, scouting forces, etc.) or trying to keep a low profile and mainly trying to move into its destination province.

-Max

Ironhawk · #10 April 11th, 2007, 05:30 PM

Yeah the paradox of players reporting the "armies missing" bug and vets never seeing it is an odd one. I have never seen it in all my games. But since people have mentioned it a lot I've been trying to keep an eye out for it. Still nothing tho.

This leads me to believe that perhaps the veterans are familiar with some nuance of dominions behavior that isnt readily known to new players? My explaination of the armies-missing scenario above is a case-in-point. To an inexperienced player it would certainly seem as tho they missed when, technically, they had not.