New CI bug with v1.41 ?

PsychoTechFreak · #1 June 30th, 2001, 11:14 PM

I wondered why the enemy races are more successful with their intel attacks in my new game (v1.41), so I have done some tests with my old "CI bug savegames", one of the CI bugs is solved now, thank you, Aaron:

Version 1.39:
8. Fixed - Successful intelligence defense would sometimes result in you having
intel defense projects more accomplished then when they started.

But it looks like we've got a new problem now, even with multiple CI projects with enough points accumulated, the projects always seem to counter just one Intel attack (maybe one per race?). Unfortunately I don't have a savegame with more than 2 races with intel points and with established contacts to each other, and I'm too lazy to create one now, so I hope someone could help me out.

What I have tested is this:

Race A has got 30,000 intel points distributed evenly to 3 CI level III projects
Race B attacks with 3 intel attacks (5,000 points each), one fails, the other 2 attacks are successful

Similar configurations (2 CI against 2 attacks, 4 CI against 3 and so on...) display the same, it's just always one attack which can be countered.

Could anybody of you who has a similar savegame (best would be with 3 or more races, to see if it's one counter per race *shudder*) check this out ?

CaptSpoogy · #2 June 30th, 2001, 11:40 PM

A possible remedy could be to use several Counter Intelligence programs at one time.

For example, if the enemy is performing 3 intels against you, you could counter by using 3 counter intelligence programs...

It's just a guess, but it might work. Perhaps it's even supposed to be this way.

------------------
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PsychoTechFreak · #3 July 1st, 2001, 07:40 AM

That's exactly what I have done:

"Race A has got 30,000 intel points distributed evenly to 3 [THREE] CI level III projects"

Meanwhile I have done some more tests about that: It's ALWAYS the first slot of the intel attacks which is just countered, so if you want your valuable intelligence attacks to come through then you just have to waste a 5,000 point slot at the beginning (e.g. census thefts) and put the more valuable attacks to the 2nd, 3rd and so on slot...

Another bad thing about this is: the CI projects of the countering race will loose their accumulated CI points in all slots (one slot for each intel attack) although the counter projects (except one) will fail. And the (first) attack (the only one which is countered successfully) is not mentioned in the Log (like: "we have countered an enemy attack successfully").

PsychoTechFreak · #4 July 3rd, 2001, 09:06 AM

AAAaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghh...

I have lost 1,5 million colonists due to a cargo bomb attack (5,000 points, that's ridiculous against my severe multiple counter intel defense).

I'm going to work out a savegame now with the original folder, to post these problems to MM. This is an annoying step back...

PsychoTechFreak · #5 July 3rd, 2001, 08:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

Could anybody of you who has a similar savegame (best would be with 3 or more races, to see if it's one counter per race *shudder*) check this out ?

Very bad news on this question: All of my CI projects just counter ONE (the very first) attack and they fail on the next attacks which are done in the same turn. This means (even with 12 almost full CI level 3 projects):

Race 1 attacks you with e.g. 5,000 points and fails against your CI projects, if it has a 2nd, 3rd... attack in the same turn : these are successful although all CI projects which SHOULD counter an attack are reset to zero.

Every further attack of race 2,3,4... in the same turn are successful.

Unfortunately this is a systematic error, not a function of random.

BeeDee10 · #6 July 3rd, 2001, 11:54 PM

Drat, this sounds to me to be as balance-damaging as the fighter-stack bug that was in the previous revision of the game. Just toss in a diVersionary 5000-point intelligence operation on the same turn that your PPP or other big project completes, and there's no way to defend against it? It's like a covert-operations Version of MAD, as soon as two empires go to war they'll ground-contaminate each others' planets back into the stone age.

LazarusLong42 · #7 July 7th, 2001, 10:01 PM

Has there been any further testing/information on this?

LL http://seiv.pbw.cc

PsychoTechFreak · #8 July 8th, 2001, 02:27 PM

I have created a savegame (original, without mods, ver 1.41) with three races under player control. Each race produces about 30,000 intel points, and everyone has established contacts to the other races. I have sent this save to MM. If anyone is interested to do some intel experiments then I would send it by e-mail.

Since this problem causes several balance problems (especially multiplayer) I disabled Applied Intelligence Tech and unchecked Allow Intelligence Projects in Game Settings for my games until this bug is fixed.

OTOH, if you like to experiment with this problem: since you only can counter the very first attack just use one CI project, the others are worthless... I sometimes have done this:
slot 1 : offensive attack with 5,000 points (because this one is the only one which could be countered)

slot 2-x : better offensive attacks (like crew insurrections)

slot x+1: about 30,000 (rest) points for one CI project

LeTharg · #9 July 8th, 2001, 05:23 PM

Before 1.41 the PBEM games were overrun with fighters. Now fighters are less common. I suppose this new "feature" will mean lots of Intel wars with those who know about it having an advantage over those who can't quite figure out what is happening to them.

Glad I made one of my games intel free. Wish I had done it with the other.

PvK · #10 July 9th, 2001, 03:50 AM

Hmm... well, to "fix" games running in 1.41 until the next patch, how about adjusting the points generated by Intel facilities in current games?

For example, the attached file divides all intel generation by ten. This will probably go a long way to restoring the balance, although it can very easily be set to other values as suits tastes and the size of the game in question.

Just copy this file to your SEIV/Data directory and overwrite the existing file. You may want to make a copy of your existing file first, but it's a very simple change (I just deleted six zeroes).

The next patch should overwrite this file, so assuming it fixes the bug, it should fix this hack as well.

PvK

[This message has been edited by PvK (edited 09 July 2001).]