Snipers Range

[Cross]

Currently in SP all snipers/marksman have a range of 750M. I seem to recall that this was discussed before, but I couldn't find it. Perhaps there was a reason for a lowish standard range for all snipers?

Anyway, recent history has shown that snipers using large cal weapons are consistantly enagaging targets at 1000M. The British army has just announced a massive purchase of rifle/sights which they say have an effective range of 1500M.

There's even a youtube video of a Canadian hitting a guy in Afghanistan at over 2000M. An exception I'm sure.

I know MBT doesn't really model individual weapons, but perhaps snipers should be available (in modern times) that have a greater range than 750M. We could leave 750M to the marksmen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...=1766&ito=1490

[pdoktar]

Check out heavy Sniper in some oobs, armed with a heavy cal sniper rifle, it has a range of 40 hexes.

[DRG]

15 nations have snipers using the Heavy rifle. The range is 36 hexes not 40

Don

[Cross]

I see the British don't have Heavy Snipers in MBT!
Yet the Brits have long range snipers IRL.

What criteria was used to determine the 15 nations?
Or is this just an oversight that will be corrected in a future release?

cheers

[DRG]

Cross said:

I see the British don't have Heavy Snipers in MBT!
Yet the Brits have long range snipers IRL.

Imagine that. We didn't drag out our crystal balls last year and gaze a full year into the future when we issued the last patch . I guess we'll just have to do better next time eh ?


Did you happen to READ that press release that was dated TWO DAYS AGO ?? especially that really informative part that says "Yesterday the Army showed off its new Long Range Rifle, which has just entered service with combat units in Afghanistan to replace smaller and less powerful weapons."

Cross said:
What criteria was used to determine the 15 nations?

OH IDK........ how about new items like this or someone pointing out they are in service but missing from the OOB .

Cross said:
Or is this just an oversight that will be corrected in a future release?

cheers

Given that the news was just revelled two days ago and the last patch was released in the spring of 2007 it could hardy be an "oversight"........... could it?

I really don't have a problem with people providing new info but this kind of post is exceedingly annoying in tone.

That new rifle will be added to the next patch but don't expect it's range or capabilites to equal the .50

Don

[Cross]

Don,

I’m sorry you found my post “exceedingly annoying in tone”. But the good news is that you completely misunderstood it.

In my first post I erroneously point out that all snipers have a range of 750M; but this is only true for all British snipers. My next point is that snipers are consistently engaging targets at 1000M. I then mention the British Army purchase of the L115A3 and ref an article that says the weapon they’re replacing has an effective range of 1000M. The new weapon range will be ca. 1500M.

I then come back to and finish on my main point about 750M not being enough.

In my second post I say:

“I see the British don't have Heavy Snipers in MBT!
Yet the Brits have long range snipers IRL.”

I clearly wasn’t talking about the future arrival of the L115A3; because as you so eloquently pointed out, that wouldn’t make any sense.

The British have used the L96A1 since 1982. Most sources give this rifle an effective range of 900M. About 3000 have been purchased by the British Army since 1982

http://www.tocatch.info/en/L96.htm
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/pw/pw_sr.htm

The British have also been using the L115A1 since 1997. This weapon has an effective range of 1100M.

It’s my understanding that it has an effective range of 1500M when used with the large cal .338 (8.59mm) Lapua Magnum ammunition; which the British have been using since (I think) 2000. This weapon/ammo can break the engine block of a vehicle, so does this mean it should be classified as a “Heavy Sniper”?

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0097.html
http://home.swipnet.se/longrange/british_army_338.htm
http://demigodllc.com/articles/milit...es-trg42-awsm/

[DRG]

I am not going to revisit the "sniper rifle range" issue. It has already been argued to death in the past and I really do not care if they "consistently engaging targets at 1000m". or more or less. Ask 40 people and get 40 different answers.

ALL regular "Sniper Rifles" in the game have a weapon range of 15 hexes. The Heavy 12.7 rifles have been given a range of 36. This new British one will be rated at 25 and I'm sure will open up a useless debate as to whether <insert nations name here> Magnum express round should be given two more hexes range because <insert nations name here> snipers are all expert qualified to <insert range here> .

YOU said "I see the British don't have Heavy Snipers in MBT! " Up until the introduction of the new rifle they didn't in the game or in RL. "Heavy" is reserved for the .50 cal weapon

The decision to give all sniper rifles the same in game range was made years ago and I have no intention of altering or opening a debate on the issue and I can assure you Andy and I are in full agreement on that.

Don

[Cross]

I thought this forum was a place to discuss OOB and equipment?

I think it’s a shame that by bringing up OOB and equipment, and introducing new info. on future equipment, you assume I am trying to be “annoying” and “open a debate” on a topic that’s been “argued to death”!!!

Personally, I was looking forward to polite, respectful exchange of info. ideas and possibilities; and to learn. It seems I was mistaken about the purpose of this forum.

For those who are interested, one of the many lessons of the Falklands War, was that the British Army realized it needed a longer range sniper rifle. The Argentineans had purchased foreign sniper rifles that had a longer range than the British weapons. That led to a contract with Accuracy International who provided the L96A1.

You can ask 40 people, and just about all of them will agree that its effective range is 900M. This may only be a slight improvement of 150M or so, but as most of us know, this can give you a tactical advantage in many situations.

The introduction of the L118A1 is less clear, perhaps because - as with many weapons – it was first used by special forces – and then made its way into the regular army. Its effectiveness is also clouded by the different ammo that’s been used.

The best info I have, is that it was first used in 1997 and I’ve seen a photo of it being used in 2001. Even the current MoD site lists it as regular British Army kit with a conservative range of 1100M.

http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/pw/pw_sr.htm

In light of this I think it’s a shame that in MBT the British sniper will go from a WWII range of 750M to a 2008 range of 1500M; skipping the two improvements of 900M in the 1980’s and 1100M in the 1990’s.

[DRG]

Cross said:
I thought this forum was a place to discuss OOB and equipment?

Feel free to ahead and discuss it. Our position is we are not going to start modeling the debateable nuances of the maximum or effective ranges for every sniper rifle produced in the last 60 years. Up until this release we have two types. Regular sniper rifles and the Heavy 50 cal rifles and now we have an intermediate to that as well.

Don

[Mobhack]

Small arms were debated way back on the old DOS forum, and there will be no changes to policy. Generic Bolt Action Rifle, SLR, AsR, SMG, sniper rifle and L/R sniper rifles etc.

Adding some variant sniper rifle would use up a weapon slot (quite valuable since these are limited) for a fringe weapon in a game of battalion battle group level (special forces would not be in the same area of operations, or if they were - not under Lt Col You's command). Then, having added this thingy, each OOB would need 3 or 4 of these added to every sniper sub-type in the OOB (Regular snipers, Ski snipers, Para Snipers, et all) - thus using up even more unit slots which again are somewhat limited in some OOBs. The cost calculator for this tiny little weapon, would probably generate no effective cost difference for it between the normal sniper weapon and the ER version just introduced, either.

So - there will be the stock sniper rifle types, and no others in OOBs. Not worth the bother of having variants - especially if the slot would later be needed for something actually useful (like a tank cannon or ATGM say).

By all means - if you think you need the capability, you have Mobhack available so you can create your own OOB with your own special interest items in it.

Cheers
Andy