New resource facility idea.

Suicide Junkie · #1 September 1st, 2001, 06:47 AM

I don't know if this is still an issue, but people have said that they find no point in researching the resource extraction techs, and just go straight to monolith 3's.

How about this:
by adding only 12 more facilities, we can make things more interesting.

SM 1:
Monolith I 500/500/500

SM 2:
Monolith IIm 600/500/500
Monolith IIo 500/600/500
Monolith IIr 500/500/600
Monolith IImo 600/600/500
Monolith IImr 600/500/600
Monolith IIor 500/600/600
Monolith II 600/600/600

SM 3:
Monolith IIIm 700/600/600
Monolith IIIo 600/700/600
Monolith IIIr 600/600/700
Monolith IIImo 700/700/600
Monolith IIImr 700/600/700
Monolith IIIor 600/700/700
Monolith III 700/700/700

For a Monolith II, you need all three resource extraction techs at level 2.
For a Monolith IIr you need only radioactives extraction level 2.
Monolith IIIs require at least level 2 in all three, plus the specified extraction tech at level 3.

Thus, you can specialize your monoliths, and with proper ordering in the text file (the same as in this post), upgrading will work perfectly.

What do you gamers think?

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geoschmo · #2 September 1st, 2001, 04:45 PM

Sorry but you've lost me on this idea. It's almost like you're adding complexity just for the sake of complexity. I dont see the point other than to give you more choices, all of which are pretty close to equal.

I guess it will force you to research the additional recoucre tech's. If that is your point, it will work.

I almost never use monolith fac's myself. They take too darn long to build. I almost never have resource problems in more than one resource at a time. So I find I am always building the resource specific fac's anyway cause I can what I need when I need it.

In a long game at some point I guess it would make more sense to convert all the resource fac's to monoliths to get the greater overall resource production. But by the time I am there, I have no resource problems and am more concernded with fighting wars than making my resource production more efficent.

Geoschmo

shonae · #3 September 1st, 2001, 04:56 PM

Personally I like the idea but the long build time will be a major factor in deciding whether to build them or not especially if you want to replace the individual resource facilities with the monoliths.

Ciao
Lee

Suicide Junkie · #4 September 1st, 2001, 11:21 PM

quote:
I almost never use monolith fac's myself. They take too darn long to build. I almost never have resource problems in more than one resource at a time. So I find I am always building the resource specific fac's anyway cause I can what I need when I need it

If you check out the stats, then you find that monoliths can produce 133% More resources than the specialized extractors.
With an efficient resource converter, you still get double the resources per facility.

Certain planets, with unbalanced values (eg. 120%/1%/5%) are better off with specialized, but most planets can make use of the monoliths.
(If the two smaller values add up to 40% of the larger value, a monolith will make you more resources)

I usually build specific extractors first, and upgrade them to monoliths once the planet is full ... for a big empire, I just go straight to monoliths to avoid Micromanagement.

quote:
Sorry but you've lost me on this idea. It's almost like you're adding complexity just for the sake of complexity. I dont see the point other than to give you more choices, all of which are pretty close to equal.
I guess it will force you to research the additional recoucre tech's. If that is your point, it will work.

The main point is to force the research of the extraction techs.
The added complexity is to provide some progress with each tech level.
Nobody will want to research four expensive tech areas to get their bonus, but if they can research one level and get a partial improvement, it is much easier to justify the research budget.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-<Download V2.3b>- (Fixed rare RCE from AI; just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<P&N V2 AI patch>- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-<Download P&N Classic>- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-<Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7>-
-<Download SJs latest AI Patcher>-
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-<Schlock Mercenary>- (great space-based webcartoon) -<First Strip>-
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</SE4Code>

Dragonlord · #5 September 2nd, 2001, 07:42 AM

I'm with geoschmo on this one...

with a normal race I get Minerals III, Rads II, and that's it. And Robotoids of course.
I have enough other things to micromanage..

Suicide Junkie · #6 September 2nd, 2001, 08:21 AM

quote:
with a normal race I get Minerals III, Rads II, and that's it. And Robotoids of course

I find that I usually just queue up monoliths, and rake in the dough.
If I ever need some more of one specific resource, it's either a 20 second stop at my resource converter, or a quick 20K trade deal with a random AI.

Having double income allows you to overlook a lot of micromanagemental efficiency boosters and still come out on top.

Rollo · #7 September 2nd, 2001, 12:15 PM

I never bother much with Monoliths, because they take too long to build, but I agree that they are nice to have in large solo player games.
I still like the idea of having a facility that produces all resources that can be used on planets with good values in all three types. IMHO a "combined factory" (lacking a better term) would be nice that is somewhat inferior to the monolith, but is faster to build. Here is my idea:

Combined Factory I (available after research of minerals2, rads2, and org2): produces 400/400/400 and costs 4000 minerals to build

Combined Factory II (available after research of minerals3, rads3, and org3): produces 600/600/600 and costs 5000 minerals to build

Maybe those numbers need some tweaking. Open for suggestions.
Rollo
[edit]typo

[This message has been edited by Rollo (edited 02 September 2001).]

geoschmo · #8 September 2nd, 2001, 02:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
I find that I usually just queue up monoliths, and rake in the dough.
If I ever need some more of one specific resource, it's either a 20 second stop at my resource converter, or a quick 20K trade deal with a random AI.

Sure, but resource converters are another thing that I very rarely have the tech for to build until late in the game, when I don't need them anyway. Resource converters and monoliths are great. They allow you to be the absolute most efficent at generating the total amoount of resources in a large, very old empire. But if your opponent has allowed you to get to the point where you have them, he's either 1. Dead, 2. Soon to be dead., 3.The A.I., 4. Just as big as you.

I think you will find that in a typical multi-player game, if you try to build monoliths from the start, you'll be dead before you get enough Online to matter. And if you try to convert them all later, you'll be too busy to care.

Geoschmo

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 02 September 2001).]

geoschmo · #9 September 2nd, 2001, 02:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rollo:
Combined Factory I (available after research of minerals2, rads2, and org2): produces 400/400/400 and costs 4000 minerals to build

Combined Factory II (available after research of minerals3, rads3, and org3): produces 600/600/600 and costs 5000 minerals to build

Maybe those numbers need some tweaking. Open for suggestions.
Rollo

I like the numbers for the facilities. You have a good balance between cost and production. But I don't like having to research all three resource techs to get them. I cannot remember a game where I had time to do that. I think people would go for monoliths before they would do all that. I would prefer maybe a new tech area that you need to build the combined faciliites. Make it cost 50K research points or something.

Geoschmo

LT411 · #10 September 2nd, 2001, 03:34 PM

I don't like monoliths. The three differnet resource types are a basic part of the game. The three colony types, mining, farming, and refining, add variety, flavor, and interest. Finally, rewarding specialization makes the game more strategic.

Monoliths detract from all three of these so I'm relegating them to an ancient ruins technology in the Balancing Modpack. I want the player to have to manage their resources in a way that varies with their overall strategy.

--LT411