Max values/game mechanics question

harlikwin · #1 March 11th, 2009, 12:09 PM

As a caveat I'm trying to do "stupid" (future combat) things that the game really wasn't designed to do with it, but I have some questions on some of the values for vehicles.

So I'm curious if there are maximum values for ground vehicles in general in the following areas?

Range finder (Does going above 22 do anything extra?)

Stabilizer? Is 6 the high value, mobhack turns red at 7

Survivability? Again is 6 the highest?

Vision. Is 50 (GSR) the best or is there a point to going higher?

FC, obviously higher is better, but will 75 or 99 FC give big bonuses compared to the 50-60's on the current high end units?

Also with regard to the "radar" FC starting at 100, do the values also translate to ground engagement once you subtract the 100. I.e. FC 160 vs air would it give a FC of 60 on ground targets? I.e. I want to combine or make dual purpose AA units.

Also:
Which armor does HE pen work against KE or HEAT? Does it set of ERA?

Mobhack · #2 March 11th, 2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlikwin

As a caveat I'm trying to do "stupid" (future combat) things that the game really wasn't designed to do with it, but I have some questions on some of the values for vehicles.

So I'm curious if there are maximum values for ground vehicles in general in the following areas?

Range finder (Does going above 22 do anything extra?)

Stabilizer? Is 6 the high value, mobhack turns red at 7

Survivability? Again is 6 the highest?

Vision. Is 50 (GSR) the best or is there a point to going higher?

FC, obviously higher is better, but will 75 or 99 FC give big bonuses compared to the 50-60's on the current high end units?

Also with regard to the "radar" FC starting at 100, do the values also translate to ground engagement once you subtract the 100. I.e. FC 160 vs air would it give a FC of 60 on ground targets? I.e. I want to combine or make dual purpose AA units.

Also:
Which armor does HE pen work against KE or HEAT? Does it set of ERA?

Well - the best thing to do if you want to try something "out of the box" is make some test scenarios and test oobs and compare and contrast. Run the tests a valid number of times as well - 20 or 50 times maybe?.

(Remember to run the OOB through the points calculator as well to see what it thinks of the data.)

Guess what - I don't know what the game does if wacky vales are tried, and I would likely have to do just that myself to answer your umpteen questions. Or try to read thousands of lines of Byzantine C code for several hours and probably still have to go back to testing, which would take several hours.

Have fun.

As to radar FC - nope, 100+ is the "magic number" for FC if the firer is a proper AAA Unit class anf firing at flying things. It will not do a lot for a MBT (probably) so 99 is likely the tops for anything. But that is merely a guess from someone who knows the code and really cannot find an hour or 2 just to see if that truly is the case.

Cheers
Andy

harlikwin · #3 March 12th, 2009, 10:42 AM

Well most of my questions are coming from many hours of "testing" because the results I'm getting are somewhat counter intuitive to me.

MY conclusions are that stab ratings greater than 6 don't matter much at all. Same for RF rating greater than 22. Same for survivability capped at 6. Vision greater than 50-60 just seems to extend range but doesn't help with spotting or anything like that.

FC seems to get better but not really that much more relative to the 40-50 values the high end units have now. I have units that move 45hexes, and can't hit anything at the end of that with FC's in the 70-80's.

As for HE pen I can't really figure it out, it seems really really variable. I have weapons with HE pen 200 that kill afv's with armor in the 30-100 (KE) about 1/2 to 1/3 of the time.

Also I can't figure out how to make FO's with the GPS guided tag that I've seen pop up.

Imp · #4 March 12th, 2009, 11:06 AM

Firstly read how stuff works HE ratings that big how bigs your warhead size to
If your going to test you can only change one thing at a time so buy a tank with FC 22 change to 95 do 50 or so firings when its stationary & when its moved say 4 12 & 20 MP all versus same size targets at same 2-3 ranges. Now you can make sense of it by comparing it to the original.

harlikwin · #5 March 12th, 2009, 02:16 PM

I've done most of the FC testing as you describe. The main issue seems to be that once movement gets up to a certain point accuracy really falls off. I may play with the accuracy ratings next to see if that helps.

As for the HE thanks for the clue on warhead size. FWIW what I'm finding in the mobhack docs seems dated so sometimes Its not clear what to take from it.

Imp · #6 March 12th, 2009, 05:14 PM

No probs but guessed it was a speed thing, I don't bother doing tests ( low boredom threshold) but for what you are doing I would suggest using the clone function as that means you can set the experience & they will all have the same. You will get a good idea how it works though doing what you are.

harlikwin · #7 March 12th, 2009, 05:45 PM

Thanks Imp, I didn't realize there was a clone function! (new to some of this)

At this point I'm trying to "rough-in" some basic parameters for Hammers slammers mod I'm trying to resurrect.

The HE pen issue was me trying to use one ammo type to represent plasma weapons. It doesn't seem to work so its heat and HE for all.

Imp · #8 March 13th, 2009, 01:35 AM

So if you are going to muck about with weapons why don't you give most AP & HE as use kinetic armour & HEAT for plasma or some such that can be shielded. So stuff with no shield has both armours the same & stuff with shielding has high HEAT armour to represent. Or work something out with ERA armour setting it to 8 or 9 so it protects well for a few hits. Biggest Warhead size you can for tactical nuke or area effect weapon perhaps with limited shots. Or a weapon that causes very low casulties but major suppression in an area. Use truck movement (not 4WD) for stuff without good cross country ability etc etc.
Can't see how you can go about modding without at least scanning docs to see how things work mind.

harlikwin · #9 March 13th, 2009, 10:57 AM

Hi Imp,

Basically I'm currently modeling plasma type weapons as HEAT, I was trying to do it all with HE.

HyperKineticPenetrators will get to be sabot/AP

I'm still not sure on lasers, but it will likely be similar to plasma with a much smaller warhead size and better accuracy or something like that. I'm open to suggestions. The main issue with doing these as HEAT is reactive armor which I'm doing as well. I may have to do them as AP.

Marek_Tucan · #10 March 13th, 2009, 11:06 AM

[quote=harlikwin;679614
The HE pen issue was me trying to use one ammo type to represent plasma weapons. It doesn't seem to work so its heat and HE for all.[/QUOTE]

Remember that absent HE ammo, unit will fire HEAT on soft targets, so you may be well enough with just pure-HEAT armament to represent plasma