An Idea for SE V

Spyder · #1 December 17th, 2001, 07:08 PM

This idea grew from my comment on one of the "What would you like to see in the next Space Empires" threads. I stated there that it would be cool to see a more complex research tree, and, even better, research trees that defined your civilization.

Now, this is fledgling and I am expanding it even as I write. Feel free to throw in more ideas.

The Basic idea is that you get so many Research points which is based upon the size of your empire...lets call them Lab Points. Primary points come from total population with bonus points for Planets & Systems. You may expend those points in any way you want, but, must choose carefully because you have a limited amount of points at your current point of development.

Each successive level of research on any given topic costs more Lab Points than the Last...say double, for the sake of argument. This would require you to carefully consider which areas you want to research, and would limit you to the number of areas in which you want to excel.

These points are separate from the game's current RP's. The Current RP's would decide on HOW LONG it will take to research. The new Lab Points would decide if you COULD research it or not.

Sooo....

You could end up with a race that excelled in propulsion & Missile weapons, but is only average in mining & Energy Weapons. His ships move fast, and he has hellacious missle attacks, but, he has problems with enemies that have lots of missile defense.

To make this work well, you'd have to interlink the research tree (like Civ, sort of) so that certain 'required' techs could be gotten to by everyone.

Ok, listening....

dumbluck · #2 December 18th, 2001, 12:45 PM

I'm a bit ... confused on how this would work. Your empire would generate lab points each turn? And you can only research, what? Only tech areas you have spent x lab points on? Only tech areas you are _currently_ spending lab points on?

quote:
Each successive level of research on any given topic costs more Lab Points than the Last...say double, for the sake of argument. This would require you to carefully consider which areas you want to research, and would limit you to the number of areas in which you want to excel

If I understand this right, let's say for example, that your empire has ...7 lab points to spend this turn. I'll use your cost doubleing per tech level for this. Cost doubling gives the following tech level costs:
Lev 1 = 1
Lev 2 = 3 (1 + 1x2 = 3)
Lev 3 = 7 (1 + 1x2 + 1x2x2 = 7)
You have several possible coarses of action:
a) spend them on 7 seperate level 1 techs, which would allow you to research these techs to level 1 at a later date. The "Jack of all trades" approach.
b) spend them on a couple of higher level techs (two level 2 tech, one level 1 tech), so that you can research them to these higher levels later. the "sorta-specialized" approach.
c)spend all 7 points on one level 3 tech, so that you can research it to level 3 later. The "very speciallized" approach.

Is that correct? Personally, I kind of like the "You can research what you are currently spending the points on" approach. As long as you are spending the required lab points on that tech level, you can pump research points into that tech level. If you divert those lab points to something else (say you need minesweepers to get thru that minefield that just wiped out your attack fleet), then you can't continue to research that tech.

Oh, wait. Never mind. I specifically _DON'T_ like the "research only what you're currently spending lab points on"! It effectively places an artificial max on tech level based on empire size. In the above example, If your empire only generates 6 lab points per turn, then you CANNOT research anything to level 3!!! No, no, no, that is definately not a good thing!

Yet I don't really see any benefit to the "accumulated spending" approach to lab points. It is basically just a hinderance to what you research when. If you want to create speciallized empires, just choose the tech cost as High under the current system. And if that isn't enough, just mod the research compounds to produce half as much research points, as well! That will slow things down a bit!

Just my overpriced $0.02.

Mark Walton · #3 December 18th, 2001, 03:08 PM

I think there may be better ways to change the tech tree in such a way that research helps define the race.

The way I would go, is increase the breadth and depth of the tree, and add more leaves, so that no one player can research everything in a typical game.

Another non-hardcode way to implement something like you suggested, is to have more "theoretical" research items which exist only to open up a branch of the tech tree, and to make these all very expensive in Research Points.

Another-nother way might be to do something like, make these theoretical techs into ruins techs, and dot more ruins about.

Personally I don't like all the extra effort involved in your method, it just seems to limit players for very little gameplay benefit.

dogscoff · #4 December 18th, 2001, 05:37 PM

I agree, I think an massive tree would be great. It would make every game (even more) different and allow so many more unpredictable developments.

I have to say I will be very interested to see the final results of the outacontrol mod - that promises to be an exceptionally convoluted and intertwined tech tree.

Aub · #5 December 18th, 2001, 08:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Spyder:
Sooo....

You could end up with a race that excelled in propulsion & Missile weapons, but is only average in mining & Energy Weapons. His ships move fast, and he has hellacious missle attacks, but, he has problems with enemies that have lots of missile defense.

I would say that, to achieve that, all tech levels would have to cost the SAME in lab points, no matter how advanced.

Then even if you have lots of regular RP, but only so many lab points, you have to research an advanced tech, or your RPs will be wasted.

Effectively, being limited in lab points is like having a limit on how many projects you can put in the research queue at a time, isn't it?

Another variation on the same theme: let's suppose that, just to be able to put an additional project into the research queue, you'd have to have an dedicated planet put in "research" mode (and it does not contribute to anything else in that mode). To make things worse, you may require that a special expensive facility be present on a planet before it can be
put in such a mode.

This way, you'd really force people to plan ahead on how many tech areas they are going to develop. It wold also make the choice of facilities a much more non-trivial exercise

0.02

Aub

Spyder · #6 December 19th, 2001, 09:38 PM

Some good points and ideas

What I am trying to achieve is racial specialty by research...instead of by selection menu at the beginning of the game. This'll require a research tree that much different than the one we have now in make-up and content.

Nope, can't do it by modding...have to program it...hence the title "Idea for SE V" (that's V as in Five). (Actually....you might be able to mod this, but, it'd change the game quite a bit)

Have to cogitate some....back in awhile