German OOB 16: missing 8,8cm Pak 43/41

[Mario_Fr]

In the German OOB the 8,8cm Pak 43/41 is missing, but I have to admit that even my german sources are in some points contradictory.
After the barrels of the Pak 43 were ready in Feb. 1943, but the carriage manufacture for the cruciform platform was lagging, it was first decided to mount the gun in the Nashorn/Hornisse tank destroyer. In April 1943 the Pak 43/41 was produced which was the barrel of the Pak put on the carriage of the 10,5cm leFH 18 (in other sources the 10,5cm leichte Kanone 41 by Rheinmetall which was never introduced), with the wheels from the 15cm sFH 18. 1403 were built until Aug. 1944. Weight 4350kg; height 1,98m; traverse 56°
In Dec 1943 / Jan 1944 the cruciform carriage was ready and 2098 of the Pak 43 were built. Weight 3650kg; height 1,7m; traverse 360°
sources: Wolfgang Fleischer, Die deutsche Panzerjägertruppe 1935-1945; and http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...ehrkanonen.htm
Second version: Already in Mid 1943 the Pak 43 with 360° traverse on cruciform carriage was introduced but the production of the carriage was difficult and not up to the expected numbers so in the end of 1943 the Pak 43/41 as described above was built in addition.
sources: Alexander Lüdeke, deutsche Artillerie-Geschütze 1933-1945; F.M. von Senger und Etterlin, die deutschen Geschütze 1939-1945.
Ian Hogg (german artillery of ww2) is aware of the two versions but doesn`t give any further details.
In any case there was a 8,8cm Pak 43 (or 43/41) already in spring of 1943. In the game right now is only the later version (1/44).
If adding the Pak 43/41 it should have size 2 (28cm higher than Pak 43) and of course less fire control (and range finder), because of it`s split trail carriage.

And maybe someone knows exactly which Pak was introduced first.

Mario

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Mario_Fr

Ian Hogg (German artillery of ww2) is aware of the two versions but doesn`t give any further details.

Hogg doesn't provide any dates of availability but he does provide details on how the carriage was constructed ( trailing legs coming from the 10.5 le FH and the wheels from the 15cm s FH ) plus combat reports of the guns performance along with the contraptions nickname the troops gave to it ("barn door") becasue it was a pig to move around , so it appears he was somewhat more than just "aware" but dates would have been helpful.

That said, 5/43 does not seem an unreasonable starting point. The issues of getting this gun into the hands of the troops is very similar to the 17 pounder and we provide the transition version in the British OOB so I will include the 44/41 in the German OOB until the PaK 43 enters service.

Don

[Mario_Fr]

Well, excuse my somewhat rakish formulation on Hogg (English is not my native language).
My sources state that the Pak 43/41 was built until Aug. 44 (1403 numbers produced), so it was a different story than the 100 pieces of the 17/25 Pdr Pheasants (17-pdr MK2 ATG, unit 403 in the British OOB), delivered in early 43.

Mario

[DRG]

The difference between the 43/41 and the 17/25 was the British were able to produce the correct carriage faster so they didn't have to make do with the transitional gun as long. Other than that the story is the same.... the gun was ready before the carriage so they had to improvise.

Don

[cbo]

According to Hahn: "Waffen und Geheimwaffen...", a pre-production series of the PaK 43 were delivered in november 1943 (6 guns) but the first guns from series production were issued to the troops in February 1944. Production ran up to wars end in 1945. Production was 2098.

The first PaK 43/41 was built in February 1943 as a prototype, the rest of the guns produced were fitted in the Nashorn Panzerjäger. The first batch of 70 guns were issued to the troops in April 1943, production running out in July 1944 with a total of 1403 made.

German statistics does not appear to discern between the two guns in anything but production, but with 183 guns lost in 1943, 738 lost in 1944 and 128 lost in the first three months of 1945, there was probably plenty left at wars end of both types.

The PaK 43/41 was certainly used in the Ardennes fighting in December 1944/January 1945 as a few weapons still remain in the area.

[Ts4EVER]

One was emplaced in a Bunker at Omaha beach.