Tank Gun Autoloaders & Ready Rounds

[Pfor]

Reading links in recent posts on the Leclerc T9, I wondered - with a 3-man crew, how would they reload the autoloader buttoned up in the middle of a WinMBT battle, and if they couldn't, should the ammo load be 22 rounds (autoloader capacity) rather than 40 (includes 18 extras)?

This led me to ask - how easy is it to access the "non-ready" rounds in any manually loaded tank (eg. from under the floorboards!), and should this affect ammo-load and/or ROF (or is it already factored in)?

[Marcello]

The game does not really cover this sort of details; in the event ROFs are already less than maximum/burst capability so it is sort of factored in. It should be possible to load spare rounds directly into the gun bypassing the autoloader I believe.

[Suhiir]

Generally ROF is based on the size of the round, big guns load slower then little ones thus have a lower ROF.

Some exceptions exist, for things like MRL's and the USMC Dragon Fire system (which has an autoloader), it's possible some tanks with autoloaders are given a slightly higher ROF.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

First generally there is a lot of resistance to ("AL") auto loaders. The Thai Army didn't want the OPLOT for that reason and the USA still doesn't use them as well by way of example. The Russians I believe have used them on more tanks then anyone going back to the T-62 or T-64. The big issue is the perception and reality in some instances of (In the case of the T-72.) mechanical failure. Generally the loading cycle 6-8 seconds depending on how degrees to carousel has to run through to retrieve the selected round type. The Russian T-90 and French LECLERC reload even faster in the 4/5 second area. Some auto loaders use carousels that contain the full ammo load or have an auto reload function as well as the refs below will discuss. Depending on the system used ammo replenishment is automated as well (This includes non auto loading tanks as well to some extent.) a full carousel type remove the spent one and reload a loaded one. The U.S. spent a lot of money looking into this and the systems discussed cover what some use now in principles of operation and functionality. In ref 1. (A good site for Soviet/Russian tanks.) you can substitute T-90AM/MS and ARMATA for the BLACK EAGLE. Ref 2 SCROLL down to see the OPLOT specs for it's auto loader and ref 3is as noted above a USA professional magazine.
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/EQP/al-640.html
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/oplot_mbt.php
http://ciar.org/ttk/mbt/armor/armor-...2ammosys95.pdf

Hope this helps and good night as the weekend doesn't start until 2230 tonight.

Regards,
Pat


Adding the T-72 as well for good general info (And it corrects me on the T-62.) but also because you might want to watch the
T-90 in a "Technical" shoot demonstrate an "AL" ROF of 3 rounds in 13 seconds.
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/EQP/al-72.html
Basic specs for his refs are on the lower left corner.

Tanks are like subs, very "cozy" and one good shot and you're dead. Only one difference in one you burn the other you implode.
Very dark indeed.

[gila]

Garbage in and garbage out basically,when using military blogs.
There is no way they give any secrets to the public away unless they are leaked intentonally to decieve.
as Don says untill we see these things rolling down the road, they are dream and mere specuation of some crackpot generals hopes(watch Dr.Strangelove ie.) when they should just shut the f###k up.
In other words never believe ever thing you read.

[Marcello]

The Thai Army didn't want the OPLOT for that reason and the USA still doesn't use them as well by way of example.

The MGS uses an autoloader, the M8 and the Crusader would have used an autoloader (the latter with no manual backup at all, or so GAO claims) and the FCS too. The Abrams may not use it, for now at least, but whatever misgivings there might have been about incorporating it back then in the 70's or squeezing such a piece of equipment now in a tank that has not been designed for it it is clear that no such hangups exist in regards to new vehicles.

There is no way they give any secrets to the public away unless they are leaked intentonally to decieve.

We are not talking about F-22 radar,alloys for high performance jet turbine blades or such though; there are T-72s in private hands nowadays.
How the ammunition is stored and how the autoloader operates is not a secret anymore. Newer stuff like Leclerc, yes you will not get exact details that you can trust 100% but general principles still apply.

[Pfor]

Well, that seems to settle it for the autoloaders, then!

It would seem that, barring a secret autoreloader or undisclosed fourth crewman, once the carousel is empty the main gun is basically down until it lays up for a while in a quiet spot away from the action (say, a supply point?)


Now, about those non-ready rounds in the manually loaded tanks ....

[Marcello]

It would seem that, barring a secret autoreloader or undisclosed fourth crewman, once the carousel is empty the main gun is basically down until it lays up for a while in a quiet spot away from the action (say, a supply point?)

No, AFAIK at least on the T-XX you can load directly from the racks without refilling the autoloader. It is slow (one round per minute, less with a well trained crew but still slow), awkward and it will distract the gunner and commander from others tasks, but certainly doable if you are, say tossing HE to support infantry. Dunno the Leclerc and the others vehicles.

[gila]

[quote=Marcello;819730]

We are not talking about F-22 radar,alloys for high performance jet turbine blades or such though; there are T-72s in private hands nowadays.
How the ammunition is stored and how the autoloader operates is not a secret anymore. Newer stuff like Leclerc, yes you will not get exact details that you can trust 100% but general principles still apply.

Don't think F-22 raptor will surface any time soon or maybe scrapped totally, under the current POTUS and defence budget cuts,but that's outside the current game concept reality, so lets not don't go there

[Pfor]

To return to my original observation:

Within the context of an MBT battle, IF a 3-man crew cannot easily access their extra ammo (which seems likely unless laid up in a quiet location) BUT a 4-man crew can access theirs under such conditions (which I suspect they can), THEN I could only conclude that there would be a huge disparity in ammo load-outs between auto and manual loading tanks, which there isn't .