Bulgarian OOB19 v.11 (2018)

Pibwl · #1 August 17th, 2018, 04:16 PM

Few amendments:

Vehicles:

01 Vickers 6 ton - apparently the name was just Vickers or Vickers E (also per post #16 here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...t=51343&page=2)
Same for 282

03 Skoda T-11 - its gun should be restored to basic #14 A3, like in original LT vz. 35 and PzKpfw 35(t). Only late tanks (unit 11) had A7 gun (like PzKpfw 38). However, both guns should differ in performance (now they have AP pen 5). According to Kliment/Francev book on Czech AFVs, A3 penetrated vertical cemented armour 45 mm at 500m, and A7 - 50mm at 500 m. Unfortunately, there are many conflicting data on 37mm guns, but A7 is rather regarded as better than German 3.7cm KwK (Kliment and Francev also claim so). Maybe it should have pen=6? (the same applies to LT-38/PzKpfw 38 in all OOBs)

Name of unit 03 should be just Skoda (Skoda T-11 was used for last delivery with A7 guns - see also post #16 here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...t=51343&page=2).

BTW, also 37mm Bofors was apparently more or less better than German 3.7cm (with basic ammo) - what seems to be confirmed by detailed Finnish tests here http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/AT_GUNS1.htm

07 Maybach T-IVh - all PzKpfw IV had hull skirts removed soon after arrival to Bulgaria, so maybe this unit should be available for a short time only, since we have unit 10 without skirts (there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between g and h variants).
They were initially painted Dunkelgelb, without multi-coloured camo, so better basic icon seems 1271.

10 Maybach IVg - name should be Maybach T-IVg, unified with unit 07.

(in fact they were painted green from some 1/45, so it could be duplicated as earlier unit with 1409 Dunkelgelb icon. Without much mistake, it could replace unit 07 with hull skirts.
There could be also added tanks without turret skirts as well, used from some 3/45.
I attached photos of late 1945 tanks with shield markings there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...6&d=1473718508 in previous topic)

16, 287 Maybach T-IV (Jagdpanzer) - I suggest to change name to Maybach T-IV SO or (better?) SO Maybach T-IV to differentiate from tanks - apparently Bulgarians known them as "self-propelled gun Maybach T-IV", and tanks as "tank Maybach T-IV". SO is an acronym of SP-gun - samokhodno orydie (same as 009 SO Praga).

288 JPz38(t) Hetzer - Bulgarian name is SO Praga (like unit 09)

47 SdKfz 222 - maybe it's better to restore 9291 photo, which was a known photo of Bulgarian vehicle?

65 2&1/2 Ton Truck - post-45 it could be Soviet-delivered Studebaker - photo 9270

Guns:

78 37mm AA-Gun - better Soviet dedicated icon is 1965

80 37mm AT-Gun - inappropriate single-tail icon - should be 8008, as Czechoslovak gun.
Weapon has too low penetration 4 - it should be 5, like original Czech gun (or even 6 - see notes for unit 03 for its tank version)

81 70/37mm Gun - I don't know this dual-caliber gun, but icon has surely too thick and too long barrel. Best seems 2170.

86 20mm AA-Gun - icon is AT gun - maybe better is old 64?

91 105mm Howitzer - dedicated icon for leFH-18 is 2128 (current has much too long barrel).

92 122mm Howitzer - icon has much too long barrel. Best for Soviet obr.1938 M-30 seems 2105 (upper view http://technicamolodezhi.ru/rubriki_.../1971/art6.jpg)
Same for Soviet unit 370, Polish LWP unit 154, German 133, Hungarian 185, Yugo 56 (they use mostly LeFH-18 icon, with very different tails)

362 122mm Howitzer - I don't know what it's supposed to be - the same gun as above, in the same period, but with different (wrong) single-tail icon. The icon suggests earlier Soviet obr.10/30 howitzer, but I doubt if old howitzers were delivered anywhere after the war, and its weapon, picture and icon should be changed in that case according to Soviet unit 362. Or it should just be deleted.

176 105mm Battery - proper photo for German K18 cannon is 2629

360 105mm Howitzer - as above. Proper icon is twin-tail 2125 (as German unit). But maybe it should be rather 10.5cm leFH-18 instead of long-range cannon K18?

363 122mm Howitzer - proper icon for Soviet obr.31/37 cannon is twin-tail 2123 (as Soviet unit 366)

That's all as for now.

Pibwl · #2 August 17th, 2018, 06:49 PM

misc:

061 Steyr 640 - it was also (or first of all?) used as an artillery tractor for AT guns

Bulgaria also used (confirmed on photos):
- Maultier tractors
- 45 mm M.1942 AT guns (after the war?)
- 152 mm ML-20 gun-howitzers (after the war?)
- 100 mm BS-3 heavy AT guns (after the war)

Pibwl · #3 August 18th, 2018, 05:55 AM

145 75mm Mtn Gun - icon is too big gun for mountain vz.15 Skoda (used for 100-122mm howitzers) (top view: https://forum.valka.cz/files/skoda-horske_delo_189.jpg)
Czech and Hungarian units use icon 2120
(BTW: Romanian unit 132 uses 2109 and should be unified as well).

146,359 75mm Field Gun - icon is a long-barrel gun, more adequate is 2111 or 2114.

BTW: according to Chamberlain's book, a mainstay of Bulgarian artillery was 75mm Schneider Mle.1905, with range only 8 km (198). It seems to be confirmed there https://www.quartermastersection.com...ian/artillery/ (as M.1904) and on this page on WW1 Bulgarian artillery https://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bu...5mm%201904.htm (again as M1904). According to the later page https://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bu...01878-1915.htm and https://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bu...%20Germany.htm Krupp 75mm guns were captured on Turkey or delivered by the Germans during WW1, and had no better range. It would mean, that the gun is on-map, regarding 169 75mm Battery..

DRG · #4 October 6th, 2018, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibwl

03 Skoda T-11 - its gun should be restored to basic #14 A3, like in original LT vz. 35 and PzKpfw 35(t). Only late tanks (unit 11) had A7 gun (like PzKpfw 38). However, both guns should differ in performance (now they have AP pen 5). According to Kliment/Francev book on Czech AFVs, A3 penetrated vertical cemented armour 45 mm at 500m, and A7 - 50mm at 500 m. Unfortunately, there are many conflicting data on 37mm guns, but A7 is rather regarded as better than German 3.7cm KwK (Kliment and Francev also claim so). Maybe it should have pen=6? (the same applies to LT-38/PzKpfw 38 in all OOBs)

Michael........this game deals armour in centimetres and that's the way it was originally designed at the outset and that's the way it will stay. We use standard rounding up / down practice for both armour values and AP penetration so a gun that can penetrate 45mm is rated 5 pen....if it was 44mm it would be a 4 and a gun that is rated 50mm pen would be rated 5 pen just as a gun that penetrates 54mm would be. 6 pen is reserved for weapons that can penetrate 55mm - 64mm and will not be used for guns that do not penetrate that much. After all these years it's a bit strange I have to explain that.