How is it possible to raid without retreat ability?

Silent Sorrow · #1 June 25th, 2002, 06:01 AM

Having just had a battle (my first real one since I bought the game), I'm wondering how it is that--for a game built on emphasizing the strategy in strategy--there can be no retreat option for combat.

It seems to me that one of the common things I might want to do in a game is raid a planet or system--do some damage and get out, fleet mostly intact. But with the way the game is designed, once your ships are in battle they can't retreat. So a raiding mission is zero sum--you either win completely or don't win and consider whatever ships you sent to have gone on a kamikaze mission.

I don't get it.

Ragnarok · #2 June 25th, 2002, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silent Sorrow:
Having just had a battle (my first real one since I bought the game), I'm wondering how it is that--for a game built on emphasizing the strategy in strategy--there can be no retreat option for combat.

It seems to me that one of the common things I might want to do in a game is raid a planet or system--do some damage and get out, fleet mostly intact. But with the way the game is designed, once your ships are in battle they can't retreat. So a raiding mission is zero sum--you either win completely or don't win and consider whatever ships you sent to have gone on a kamikaze mission.

I don't get it.

Yes, we ALL want the retreat option back. It was in SEII but I don't know about SEIII. But it will most likely be back in the near future. Maybe next patch or SEV. But I miss having that option. But the best thing to do right now is if you don't wanna fight no more with your ships is to take them to the outside edge of the map. But if the enemy has ships they'll chase you so you'll have to fight anyways. But if you're just attacking a planet then this tatic will work.
Hope that helps.
lol... You're probably wondering why I'm the one responding first to your post's... Well it's because I have nothing else to do tonight. So I'm just crusing the board being, well, bored. LMAO.

Silent Sorrow · #3 June 25th, 2002, 06:18 AM

Not at all. Your replies are very welcome. So while you're sitting there being bored, perhaps you'd care to speculate on what possible reason the designers could have had for removing the retreat option. Honestly, I can't think of a single good reason.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ragnarok:

quote:
Originally posted by Silent Sorrow:
Having just had a battle (my first real one since I bought the game), I'm wondering how it is that--for a game built on emphasizing the strategy in strategy--there can be no retreat option for combat.

It seems to me that one of the common things I might want to do in a game is raid a planet or system--do some damage and get out, fleet mostly intact. But with the way the game is designed, once your ships are in battle they can't retreat. So a raiding mission is zero sum--you either win completely or don't win and consider whatever ships you sent to have gone on a kamikaze mission.

I don't get it.

Yes, we ALL want the retreat option back. It was in SEII but I don't know about SEIII. But it will most likely be back in the near future. Maybe next patch or SEV. But I miss having that option. But the best thing to do right now is if you don't wanna fight no more with your ships is to take them to the outside edge of the map. But if the enemy has ships they'll chase you so you'll have to fight anyways. But if you're just attacking a planet then this tatic will work.
Hope that helps.
lol... You're probably wondering why I'm the one responding first to your post's... Well it's because I have nothing else to do tonight. So I'm just crusing the board being, well, bored. LMAO.

Puke · #4 June 25th, 2002, 06:34 AM

maybe Aaron disagrees with the old axiom about discression and honor. or maybe it was to hard to work out how it would function.

i.e., can slower ships retreat from faster ones? if a force is of mixed ships, will only the faster ships be able to run? what becomes of ships of the same speed? is a fighting withdrawl being made, or is the fleet being routed? if a fighting withdrawl, do they inflict damage as they flee? do they take any? do they take more if its a route? how is a route determined? where do they flee to? what if they dont have any movement left?

while most, if not all and possibly more, of those questions can be answered, you do see how it could be problematic to program, and was perhaps left out of the initial release do the the extra time designing and testing that it would have caused.

of course, thats just a useless guess

HEMAN · #5 June 25th, 2002, 06:39 AM

HI Silent Sorrow, Yes, we ALL want the retreat option back. It was in SE3. I know i emailed MM on this many times,and suggested to beta testers too. There will be a patch soon to se4gold , but its uncertain it will be there. NOTE;I dont know the reason why it wasnt implemented?.

Ferengi Rules of Acquisition #7 Keep your ears open.

Ragnarok · #6 June 25th, 2002, 06:54 AM

I agree with what Puke has to say about it. They had to rush to meet the deadline they did have for Gold so that might be one reason of many that they did not impliment it into Gold.

Another reason may be realisim(sp). In a actual fight were you got two sides if one side backs down the other advances, so they'd be the same distance apart unless one was faster. Thus retreating would get you no where but further away from the start of the battle. Unless you look at it likes this, in space/sci-fi type of shows/games, ships have faster then speed engines. So if the retreating party engaged their engines they cuold've gained enough ground on their pursuer that in effect they would have "retreated". Because unless the enemy is faster then you are you would maintain a large enough distance to keep out of firing range and thus effectivly retreat".

That's just one of many ways to look at it. I probably confused you all with that. It's late here so most likely I did confuse you. But who knows why Aaron didn't add it to Gold. We can only hope he puts it in the next patch for Gold.

Phoenix-D · #7 June 25th, 2002, 07:27 AM

You can raid- but you have to raid differently. Hit the mildly defended targets, or park just outside his reach and make him nervous.

Phoenix-D

Rollo · #8 June 25th, 2002, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
Yes, we ALL want the retreat option back...

No we don't.(edit, better said: no, not all of us). IMHO the retreat in SEIII was a PITA. Hunting down single ships multiple times until you have them in the systems corner or surrounded by single ships of your own is just not fun. Haven't really put much thought to it, but in simultaneous move a retreat could really screw up things. I prefer having no retreat.

Rollo

[ June 25, 2002, 09:32: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Q · #9 June 25th, 2002, 10:50 AM

Rollo at least we are two with that opinion!
Me too, I do not miss the retreat option at all.

Mephisto · #10 June 25th, 2002, 10:51 AM

I back Rollo and Q. In SE3 you had to chase the enemy into a corner in the system map. Where is the difference to chasing him into a corner in the battle map?