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Old January 12th, 2003, 09:03 PM
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Default Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

Grandpa Kim

I liked your dissertation on "duty";
===========================================
Do not confuse "duty" with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect.
But there is no reward at all for doing what other people expect of you, and to do so is not merely difficult, but impossible. It is easier to deal with a footpad than it is with leech who wants "just a few minutes of your time, please-- this won't take long." Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few. If you allow yourself to fall into the vice of agreeing to such requests, they quickly snowball to the point where these parasites will use up 100 percent of your time-- and squawk for more!
So learn to say No-- and to be rude about it when necessary.
Otherwise you will not have time to carry out your duty, or to do your own work, and certainly no time for love and happiness. The termites will nibble away your life and leave none of it for you.
(This rule does not mean that you must not do a favor for a friend, or even a stranger. But let the choice be yours. Don't do it because it is "expected" of you.)

=============================================

The fundamental issue here is "Who has the right to decide your actions".

We often do the kneejerk reaction when someone accuses us of not doing our duty or of being selfish. If we do, then we accept the premise that the person has the right to control us.

But we can pause and think about the accusation. We can acknowledge that we have the right to say "No" to the person claiming we are selfish. And if the person continues on the "selfish" tact or some other ploy, then that person is being manipulative as he/she will not accept 'no' for an answer.

A good way to question that person perception of his right to control or manipulate your actions is to ask "What part of 'No' do you not understand."

The hard manipulator will totally ignore the question and continue to manipulate which should tell you something about him/her.

In such a situation, you then have a number of choices.
1) Remove yourself from the situation
2) Ask the question again and again until he/she addresses it.

The soft manipulator will pause and then try to divert it or explain it away, but still avoiding the issue that you have a right to decide the issue for yourself

The answer to the soft manipulator is "I have the right to say 'No' to anything I do not like. I choose to say 'No' now."

If the soft manipulator continues, go back to "What part of 'No' do you not understand?"

Unfortunately, the inability to say 'No' is part of the 'please disease'.

We do not want to offend, so we repress our own needs in preference to the other's.

We then run the danger of establishing a relationship where the other person's needs are paramount and our needs do not count.

In such a situation it can become very difficult to re-establish an 'equal' relationship as the manipulator (consciously or unconsciously) does not want to relinquish the power he has over the other person.

It does help to say to yourself when you are accused of being selfish "No, I am not being selfish, I am being selfull."

It also helps to acknowledge "When I am empty, I have nothing to give to others. So, I need to look after myself first and when I have done that, I can choose where and how I want to help others."

It is only when a person acknowledges that s/he (and nobody else) has the right to make her/his own decisions and acknowledges that s/he is accountable for them that the person can reclaim the right and the power to decide things for himself.
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Old January 13th, 2003, 01:13 AM

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Default Re: Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

I had a telemarketer try this on me.
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Old January 13th, 2003, 01:41 AM
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Default Re: Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

Quote:
Originally posted by Auron Stiner:
I had a telemarketer try this on me.
My understanding is that a lot of telemarketers are trained not to accept "No" as an answer.

If they can keep you on the line, their odds of succeeding increases of finding a 'chink' they can exploit.

Much more difficult to sell you something when you have hung up (removed yourself from the situation).

But the area in which we have the most difficulty is our personal life.

A parent, sibling, friend or boss may be using similiar tactics to get their way.

We can be quite blind to the tactics used by these people since we may prefer to believe they "care" deeply about us.

If so, we are probably in denial that someone we love/like/dependant upon would use us in such a way.

And if we try to questioning it, we are brought face to face with the possibility that s/he may not love or like us.

For a lot of people that can be incredibly painful.

The need to be loved or liked can be so great that it aborts any 'real' attempt to take control of their lives and change their situation.

In such a situation, the please disease is in full operation.
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Old January 13th, 2003, 03:16 AM
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Default Re: Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

Glad you liked the quote, tbontob. Its not mine, of course, but it fits my philosophy.

Another reply to the subhuman who just won't quit: "If you want it so badly, you do it!" Many variations on this reply: "If you think I need it so badly, then you pay for it.", "It doesn't interest me so I won't waste my time on it... but since it interests you, you can spend your time on it."

If they still persist, start writing out an invoice for your time. And don't forget the zeros!

Kim
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Old January 13th, 2003, 03:26 AM

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Default Re: Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

The solution to telemarketers is to have a 900 number. No two ways about it. Get rich for listening to them
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Old January 13th, 2003, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

Quote:
Originally posted by AS of SA:
The solution to telemarketers is to have a 900 number. No two ways about it. Get rich for listening to them
ROFLOL
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Old January 13th, 2003, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

My latest technique on telemarketers, especially those asking for charity donations (like Florida Highway Patrol Sympathy Fund or whatever it is) is to ask the caller how much they have personally donated to the cause. When they stutter and stammer, I politely inform them that they shouldn't call back until/unless they have given to the very important causes they are promoting. I also love finding out an ATT telemarketer (who probably lives in town here and very rarely actually works for ATT) has Sprint for his long-distance carrier, or vice-versa.
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Old January 13th, 2003, 06:52 AM

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Default Re: Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

"My understanding is that a lot of telemarketers are trained not to accept "No" as an answer."

I worked very briefly (translation: two weeks) as one, and yep, that's the case. I was told to not accept no for an answer until the -third- time I gave a counter and was turned down.

One of the reasons I quit. I have a very simple strategy for dealing with telemarketers. As soon as I figure out who they are, I hang up. It's not rude because A. they're interuptting MY day, so if anyone is rude they are, and B. I'm not going to buy anything, so the faster they get off me the faster they can move on to someone else. At least where I worked a lot of the pay is commission.

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Old January 13th, 2003, 09:44 AM
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Default Re: Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

That's a good point. I have never hung up on a telemarketer; I have difficulty doing that. But I really should. I have gotten into debates with them about why I should or shouldn't buy their insurance or newspaper subscription or whatever, and it was not pleasant, as some of these people were really good at arguing and countering my objections. I'd keep saying no, but since I wasn't prepared for a debate like they were, my arguments seemed weak compared to theirs, and I felt awkward, but eventually they'd give up. I got tired of this and I came up with a method to deal with them: don't try to reason with them normally. I would talk like I'm super sleepy, and I'd pause a long time to answer, and I'd mumble my answers slowly, pretend that I don't understand, and act like a complete dummy. They quickly get frustrated talking to me and they go away. Maybe I should just hang up on them instead.

By the way, I haven't met anybody who's worked as a telemarketer who didn't hate the job. They said that the computer automatically dials the next number the instant you finish a call with someone, and it's really stressful because you have to keep going, one call after another with no pauses in between.
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Old January 13th, 2003, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Grandpa Kim on the topic of duty

I hate telemarketers. I have 2 ways of dealing with them:

1> I repeatedly explain to them that I have a personal policy *never* to buy anything from telemarketers, and that I consider their call an invasion of my privacy. I then ask them to remove my details from their lists (I doubt they ever do) and hang up.

2> I put them on "hold". Since I don't actually have a hold button on my phone, this means just putting the phone by my stereo and playing funny and/ or offensive and/or bizarre music. In the past I've come back to them after 15 minutes or more and found them hanging on...

I'd like to think that on those telemarketting lists they circulate, my name has got a big black "Don't waste your time phoning this guy" warning next to it
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