Refit Fleet Problem

[tbontob]

I have a fleet which consists of:

5 Light cruisers with DUCS
5 Battle Cruisers with Ducs
3 Battle Cruisers with PDC's
2 Repair Battle Cruisers with 24 repair capacity each
1 Space Yard Battle Cruiser with 8 repair capacity.

Only the 2 repair Battle Cruisers are in the fleet. The others are outside of it.

My race has average repair ability (100%)

Consequently, IMO the fleet should refit 56 components (24+24+8).

But it only refits about 8 or 10 components.

Only the light cruisers were refit. The other ships were unchanged. (no craters created for the upgrade).

The refit is well within the 150% rule for each ship.

I was very careful to make sure each ship had instructions to refit.

Anybody have an idea what I am doing wrong?

[ March 12, 2003, 04:57: Message edited by: tbontob ]

[Phoenix-D]

You didn't put the ships back in the fleet after giving the retrofit orders, did you?

also, did you have the money to do the retrofit?

Phoenix-D

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
You didn't put the ships back in the fleet after giving the retrofit orders, did you?

also, did you have the money to do the retrofit?

Phoenix-D

No, the ships were not moved at all after the refit order was given.

The resources could be a problem. My storage of organics and radioactives were very low, but the refit didn't require much of them. But even if the refit would take the organics and radioactives into a minus position, the production was such that organics and radioactives storage increased by over 12,000

Is a refit done by a ship any different from a refit done by a planet?

Like a planet refit of ships which exceeds the repair capacity of the planet will leave craters for missing components. This did not happen with the ships that were to be refit. It only refit about 8 or 10 components in the light cruisers and that was it.

[Slick]

If a retrofit fails due to lack of resources, you will get a Log message saying so.

Also, from the Newbie FAQ:
14.0.2 Retrofits happen before resource income.(Suicide Junkie)

So you would have had to have the resources in the bank and not rely on income to cover the retrofit for that turn.

Retrofits happen the same regardless of using a planet or ship spaceyard. If you can finance the refit (and it meets the 150% rule), the refit happens, resources are deducted and all components are added/removed as necessary. Repairs are then conducted and any repairs beyond the capacity are shown as damaged "craters" to be continued on following turn(s). If you cannot finance the refit or you don't meet the 150% rule, the refit does not happen and as noted above, you get the log message, no resources are deducted and the order is removed from the ship's order queue.

edit: added specifics.

Slick.

[ March 12, 2003, 07:50: Message edited by: Slick ]

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Slick:
If a retrofit fails due to lack of resources, you will get a Log message saying so.

Also, from the Newbie FAQ:
14.0.2 Retrofits happen before resource income.(Suicide Junkie)

So you would have had to have the resources in the bank and not rely on income to cover the retrofit for that turn.

Retrofits happen the same regardless of using a planet or ship spaceyard. If you can finance the refit (and it meets the 150% rule), the refit happens, resources are deducted and all components are added/removed as necessary. Repairs are then conducted and any repairs beyond the capacity are shown as damaged "craters" to be continued on following turn(s). If you cannot finance the refit or you don't meet the 150% rule, the refit does not happen and as noted above, you get the log message, no resources are deducted and the order is removed from the ship's order queue.

edit: added specifics.

Slick.

Slick, I think you hit the nail on the head.

I wouldn't have had the resouces in the bank.

The only problem is I don't get the log message. I especially looked for it at the time and couldn't see one. I rechecked the game now and there is no log entry of not being able to do the refit.

[Slick]

If I remember correctly, the Log message on the left looks like a successful retrofit. It says "Vehicle Retrofit". If you highlight that entry, the center panel of the Log will have the message that the retrofit failed.

Thus if you retrofit several ships, say 10, and you had enough $$$ for the first 4, there would still be 10 Log entries saying Vehicle Retrofit. In the center panel, the first 4 would say that the vehicle was retrofitted to the new design and the Last 6 would say that the retrofit failed due to insufficient resources.

You have to check each one to see if it was successful.

edit:
One more thing. I am sure you checked your retrofits for the 150% rule, but to be explicit, the 150% rule applies to the total retrofit which can only be seen in the retrofit screen . Total M+O+R is used as a basis before and after, however you can't just use raw cost of the 2 ships because of the cost to add and remove components (120% and 30% respectively from settings.txt). If your retrofit failed due to the 150% rule, it also would show Vehicle Retrofit on the left panel of the Log and you would have to highlight that entry to read the center panel to know that the retrofit failed due to the 150% rule.

Slick.

[ March 12, 2003, 10:06: Message edited by: Slick ]

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Slick:
One more thing. I am sure you checked your retrofits for the 150% rule, but to be explicit, the 150% rule applies to the total retrofit which can only be seen in the retrofit screen . Total M+O+R is used as a basis before and after, however you can't just use raw cost of the 2 ships because of the cost to add and remove components (120% and 30% respectively from settings.txt).

I may be misunderstanding what you are trying to say here. If I am reading you correctly, you are incorrect. The penalty cost for adding and removing components is not a factor in the 150% rule. The only thing looked at for the 150% rule is the raw cost of the before and after designs.

However, when deciding if you have enough resources in your empire storage to actually perform the retrofit, then you have to take into consideration the install and removal penalty costs you mentioned. (The 120%/30% in the settings.)

If that is what you were saying and I am just misunderstanding you I appologize.

Geoschmo

[ March 12, 2003, 13:33: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Slick:
If I remember correctly, the Log message on the left looks like a successful retrofit. It says "Vehicle Retrofit". If you highlight that entry, the center panel of the Log will have the message that the retrofit failed.

Thus if you retrofit several ships, say 10, and you had enough $$$ for the first 4, there would still be 10 Log entries saying Vehicle Retrofit. In the center panel, the first 4 would say that the vehicle was retrofitted to the new design and the Last 6 would say that the retrofit failed due to insufficient resources.

You have to check each one to see if it was successful.

edit:
One more thing. I am sure you checked your retrofits for the 150% rule, but to be explicit, the 150% rule applies to the total retrofit which can only be seen in the retrofit screen . Total M+O+R is used as a basis before and after, however you can't just use raw cost of the 2 ships because of the cost to add and remove components (120% and 30% respectively from settings.txt). If your retrofit failed due to the 150% rule, it also would show Vehicle Retrofit on the left panel of the Log and you would have to highlight that entry to read the center panel to know that the retrofit failed due to the 150% rule.

Slick.

Many thanks to all you guys for helping me work this out.

Special kudos to Slick who was able to identify and tell me:

a) that I must have enough resourses in storage to do a successful retrofit.
b) that the log will show whether a retrofit has been done.

As a result of his observation, I really looked at the log entries. All of them had the heading "Vehicle Retrofit" which I had assumed to mean the vehicle had been retrofitted.

Nada! Opening each individual log, I can see that I have successfully retrofitted the ship or unsuccessfully retrofitted for lack of resources.

Maybe I am asking too much, but IMO it would be helpful to identify a successful retrofit from a unsuccessful retrofit from the heading.

Like I had more than 30 retrofits going on. And to open and read each and every one is an absolute drag.

So something like "Vehicle retrofitted" and "Vehicle not retrofitted" as log headings would simplify matters enormously.

Let's go to the cantina and have a round!

[Slick]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Slick:
One more thing. I am sure you checked your retrofits for the 150% rule, but to be explicit, the 150% rule applies to the total retrofit which can only be seen in the retrofit screen . Total M+O+R is used as a basis before and after, however you can't just use raw cost of the 2 ships because of the cost to add and remove components (120% and 30% respectively from settings.txt).

I may be misunderstanding what you are trying to say here. If I am reading you correctly, you are incorrect. The penalty cost for adding and removing components is not a factor in the 150% rule. The only thing looked at for the 150% rule is the raw cost of the before and after designs.

However, when deciding if you have enough resources in your empire storage to actually perform the retrofit, then you have to take into consideration the install and removal penalty costs you mentioned. (The 120%/30% in the settings.)

If that is what you were saying and I am just misunderstanding you I appologize.

Geoschmo

---

You are right, my words were confusing, but that was what I was trying to say. Thanks for clearing that up. I was up way too late when writing that one. Tired + math = confusing.

Slick.

[Suicide Junkie]

But even if the refit would take the organics and radioactives into a minus position, the production was such that organics and radioactives storage increased by over 12,000

Unfortunately, that is not good enough.
The retrofits happen before resource income is added.
Also, if you only have 50,000 storage, you can only do $50,000 worth of retrofits each turn, even if you have a +250,000 budget surplus.