Depopulation

[Treebeard]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
We like it the way it is, it is easier to kill than to repopulate. If you kill off a whole province it only makes sense that it is a very slow process for it to be repopulated.

Heh, it should much easier to kill than to repopulate, the problem is, it's almost impossible to repopulate. I'd love to get some other ways to raise the population of a province.

[licker]

Originally posted by Treebeard:

quote:

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Originally posted by johan osterman:
We like it the way it is, it is easier to kill than to repopulate. If you kill off a whole province it only makes sense that it is a very slow process for it to be repopulated.

Heh, it should much easier to kill than to repopulate, the problem is, it's almost impossible to repopulate. I'd love to get some other ways to raise the population of a province.

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Why not add a kind of 'forced migration', take a commander and some troops and force a few hundred people from one province to another... You'd have to take a pretty hefty unrest hit, but in some situations it might be worth it to try and get the pop jumpstarted somewhere...

[Mortifer]

That wont help, if almost all provinces are depopulated.

As I said there should be some major spells to populate a province, or maybe some other options.

[Kristoffer O]

To raise a child takes time, and even though lust and good harvests might speed up the *!* , breeding is a rather slow process.

Population is a resource, much like gold or metals. During ancient times chinese warlords force-moved farmers from one province to another. This was probably done by other ancient empires as well. After all, population was the most important resource of an empire. We realized that a game mechanic that allowed moving populations would cause all inhabitants to be gathered into capitals. Not a very good solution.

I like the fact that it is impossible to increase the population. It is the only non renewable resource in dominions.

Last remark: There are three kinds of spells I can think of that would increase population: teleport thousands into your province, create thousands out of thin air or force grow thousands. I do not like the first two options and the Last one strikes me as inefficient if you want to create a farming population. I prefer to keep crossbreeding for war only purposes.

[licker]

Originally posted by Mortifer:
That wont help, if almost all provinces are depopulated.

As I said there should be some major spells to populate a province, or maybe some other options.

Hmm, well if almost all provinces are depopulated then I'd guess that Ermor (or whomever) had pretty much won. Besides where does the new population come from? Even with as much magic as there is in the game, it doesn't make alot of sense for people to just pop out of the aether. Spells that increase the %growth make sense, for that reason, being able to forcibly move enough pop from one place to another, then slap on some spells to make them @#%# like bunnies (so sue me ) or make them happier where they are make more sense.

Maybe for some nations it makes sense to create population from nothing, but the entire aspect of who lives in where is pretty well abstracted I think. Better to not think about it too logically perhaps, or else you'll lose your perspective on the game as a whole, by getting bogged down in arguments about realism and the like

"We realized that a game mechanic that allowed moving populations would cause all inhabitants to be gathered into capitals. Not a very good solution. "

But surely you could implement population caps based on scales and province size, ... for various provinces, and as such trying to cram in too many people would cause bad things to happen? If you look at MoO3 they had this exact dynamic (though you couldn't really force move people either), but once a system (province) started to get too many people in it, unrest would go through the roof, and alot of the people would leave to go to less crowded places.

Also a decreasing rate of return as you swell the population somewhere would work as well. I don't really mind the situation as it is now, but its not that difficult to implement a system to allow for population transfer, especially if its forced and by design takes up commander and troop time, as well as increasing unrest in the provinces it affects.

[ September 25, 2003, 19:23: Message edited by: licker ]

[Nerfix]

Hmmmmmm...
Crossbreeding for war purposes only...
Apparently you still like crossbreeds...
We even got the R'lyehian Tentacle Boogeymen/Human Crossbreeds...
(if you don't know what i am talking about, then forget...)

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Truper:
So a question for the vets: did the world start feeling empty towards the end of a long game, and how did you feel about it, if so?

LOL... it reminds me of one of my first big PBEMs, I managed to conquer Atlantis early and after a while my twin capitals were past the 4Ok pop mark - great!. At this point a coalition of all the remaining players (bar just two) decided I was a really stinking squid and they poured Black Deaths on my big sea provinces like if there was no tomorrow. 14 turns after the first hit, and despite the fact I had domes of AW on every 20k+ province even before the onslaught started, Atlantis was down to 11k, R'lyeh to less than 4k (!), and although I had conquered a dozen more provinces (mostly Abysian wastelands, sheeesh!), I had 65% less pop! That was the first time I was subject to mass devastation, and it left me somewhat... shocked ;-)

Every game I played after that, especially on small crowded maps, was pretty brutal on the pop if it were to Last more than 50-60 turns. Pillaging your ennemy's territory is sometimes more profitable than storming his fortresses.

Ah, another fun 'death' game: common random events, and every player had to pick max unluck + max turmoil. I got 3 floods on my capitol in the first 8 turns, reducing it to just above 8k. A few barbarian invasions and emigrations later, I was down to less than 4k. My closest neighbor was in an even worse shape, at the same time he had just 1200 pop left at his capital. The only lucky event I had was the visit of the hero team, since I managed to convert Bogus and his fellow Troll archer to my cause ;-). After a while every regular troop you could raise was a virtual deserter because of gold shortages. At some point I suicided all my standard leaders to cut on my upkeep (I had no regular troop left for them to lead anyway), so I could buy a couple more summoners. OFC Ermor wasn't allowed in this game, but it turned out the most succesful players had 'Ermorian' dominions and pretenders (and strategies). The game Lasted more than 70 turns and I don't think the largest province was bigger than 5k in the end ;-)