Colony ships, for sale cheap!

[Fyron]

quote:

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I was just trying to justify the current costs. I think the problem is more in the speed of building structures than in the speed of establishing colonies.
Example: You establish a colony on a huge world, and start building mines. [Edit: I mean mines as in mining facilities.] In only 30 years, you've covered the entire surface with mines. What??!! Holy Cow! that's a lot of mines!
Another example: In the same turn that you colonize, you can fill up the colony with settlers (from transports) to its max pop. What??!! Where did all that housing come from?
Sooooo, what you really need to do is to make all planets hold 6x as much stuff, decrease the capabilities of all facilities by 4x, get Aaron to add housing facilities to hold pop, and change the pop production bonuses to fit this new model. Then find some people who like to play excruciatingly long games!

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Alternatively, you could double or triple the build times of the basic facilities, thereby making it take 60 or 90 turns to fill up a huge planet.

[Suicide Junkie]

As another alternative, change the construction rate modifiers, so planets with 1M people build at 10% speed, with +1% for every 4M people or so.

I have a program to do that; just specify what settings you want.

[Quikngruvn]

I agree with IF about the racial points. Anyone wiling to spend that many points should get faster builds. Just wondering where you'd sacrifice, and what would happen when you meet other races who don't build as quick, but have nasty combat (and other) bonuses.

Upping facility costs and SJ's contruction-per-population idea are intriguing. I guess it's a matter of where to put the bottleneck: on expansion or on planetary development. Either would completely change the game. Both, and you'll be playing till SEVI comes out!

Quikngruvn

[Suicide Junkie]

Both are almost the same thing, except my method is a littlemore involved/fancy, and adds 5000 lines to settings.txt (I hope SE4 can handle that).

[PvK]

My Proportions mod (see Gold) addresses issues with population trasport, population growth, population effects on both production and construction (different curves) and colony development versus developed homeworlds. Of course, it does make it take years to build up colonies that can add much to the output of a homeworld, but the homeworld itself is enough to field a decent fleet. That is, I like realistically slow development, but probably a lot of players' reactions would be along the lines of "WTF! It takes forever to fully develop a planet!"



PvK

[dogscoff]

Here is something I posted in the "modder's brainstorming session" thread, May 2001. I've tweaked it a little for this thread:


First, the map generator files would have to be modded to make colonisable planets/ systems rarer and farther apart. This would increase their value and force players to look beyond their home systems.
Huge maps with fewer empires would also help.

Now, make transport hulls, colony ships and colony components far bigger. I'm thinking maybe 800-1000 kt colony ships with harsh combat penalties, and a 700-900 kt colony component which can nonetheless be destroyed with only a few shots. The colony component should also be prohibitively expensive- this might have the added effect of making retrofit "cheats" impossible (due to the 50% rule).

Cargo components should be split into 2 types: Small ones and huge ones which will only fit on transports. The ones for smaller ships should be of limited use and efficiency, forcing players to use large ships for any serious cargo movement. Unit sizes could be increased, to further limit the usefulness of small colony components.

Now adjust supply usage/ storage so that long range travel is really difficult for large ships, but relatively easy for smaller ones. I think you'd have to use some kind of quasi newtonian system with a steep curve in favour of small ships.

Setting up a new colony would now be a *major* investment (and hence a *major* risk)- especially in another system. You would also find it difficult to transport weapons platforms and other defences with your colony. The colony ships would be slow, fragile, and easy to hit in combat, and would have to cross many systems of empty space before reaching their destination. A "bodyguard" fleet would be essential.

Colonising your home system would still be fairly easy, but newly colonised systems would be extremely vulnerable. This is good, after all it's a long way home. Facilities should take longer to build, so that a new colony does not establish itself and become independent of external defence/ support too quickly.

The supply restrictions on bigger ships and cargo restrictions on smaller ones would limit the expansion of infrastructure, so military domination would then revolve around the strategic placement of fleets, mines, sats, space stations and colonies rather than simply racing to develop the bigger production base and throw ships at the enemy.

Glassing a planet would be a desperate measure, and troop attack/ defence essential. Perhaps tweak weapon platform mounts and population toughness to make established planets less easy to conquer, but balance the added effectiveness with higher cost, again restricting the rate at which a new colony develops independence.

Fleets of small ships would be able to roam from system to system and rule over frontier space. However they would be more or less powerless against the defences of established systems. Attacking such a system would be an enormous project, involving gigantic motherships subject to similar limitations as the transports. However, you'd constantly be on the lookout for new colonies to conquer, since they would be comparatively easy to take but represent a huge reward. Kind of like predatory animals preying on the young, the weak and the sick at the edges of the herd=-)

Acquiring non-military techs (ie colonisation, stellar manip, cargo, supply) would become more important. Remote mining would play a greater role, as would moons, storms and nebulae. Physical warfare would become the Last resort when diplomacy and intel fail, although having good defences around your home systems would be more important than ever.

It would make for a much slower and more deliberate game, since ships and planets would no longer be "throwaway" items. Combat would be rarer but when it happened it would be truly epic, with loads of allied empires in gigantic battles.

Some or all of these ideas may have been implemented in PvK's proportion mod, and I'm sure there are things in there which might be applied to all what I've posted here. Tweaking the population bonuses for colonies in favour of well developped worlds would help, as would enhancing the cloak/ sensor system for advanced cat & mouse games in all those empty systems. Some of S_J's components (ie hardened bulkheads, cheap/ quality mounts) would make good additions since they make ships more individual.

I don't know how the AI would cope with all this (It might do quite well actually) but it would be cool for human players - a whole new game with a whole new feel.

[Suicide Junkie]

quote:

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Tweaking the population bonuses for colonies in favour of well developped worlds would help, as would enhancing the cloak/ sensor system for advanced cat & mouse games in all those empty systems.

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1% SY rate per 25M people would go a long way towards that goal. Homeworlds would get 200% @ 5 Billion, while the colonies would be nearly helpless. A huge transport full of people might be able to jump-start a colony, but every % you add has to come from some other planet.
If anybody ever fills up a Dyson Sphere, they get 2,560 %

What do you think of the cloaking system described in A Pirate's Life?

- Stealth armor gives Passive EM cloak (upto level 4)
- Scattering armor gives Active EM cloak (lev 4)
- Master Computers give Psychic cloak (lev 4)
- Hull Size gives gravitic cloak (upto lev 4)
- E-Security teams give "Hacker" cloak (lev 4)
(using old temporal ability. "Temporal sensors" scan both EM types plus some gravitic.)

That way, a baseship makes a huge blip on your gravitic radar, no matter how good the rest of its stealth is.
An escort or frigate is undetectable by gravitics, but does not have the space on board to carry all of the other cloaking devices plus engines & weapons.
With the numbers I threw out, only the frigates could be completely undetectable, but they would have only 30KT for weapons & engines.
A one-MP plaguebomber, or a 3-MP scout, and very vulnerable to minefields