LeafNosedBat- EA game (upload pretenders)

[Carkaton]

He kept losing battles and probably got demoralized and gave up. If he would've equipped his jarls and sent them into battle instead of using them as casters he probably would've fared better.

[Darkstone]

Carkaton said:
He kept losing battles and probably got demoralized and gave up.

That's quite an assumption. Any number of reasons why (but only a few of them good). Best to let Niefel explain.

Carkaton said:
If he would've equipped his jarls and sent them into battle instead of using them as casters he probably would've fared better.

That's completely correct, however, staling for 4 turns kind of takes the wind out of the sails of the defense of one's nation.

As to the staling for 4 turns with no mention, this sort of behavior should really not be acceptable. Outside of death (one's own or family) there's never a reason to not ask for a sub or not go AI. The unfair advantage given to the neighbors (in this case Ulm and C'tis) is tremendous.

Unfortunately, I can do nothing but look on in protest. I am however, left with a sour taste in regards to MP play.

Edit:
After a moment of retrospect, I request a 24 hour delay in hosting to allow a sub to be found. If one cannot be acquired, the admin should turn Niefel AI before the next turn. Though this action will likely result in only a speedbump for Ulm and C'tis it is still the correct thing to do in my opinion.

[Carkaton]

Well being that I was the only one at war with him, that he sent his 10 to 15 man squads of giants at me that got wiped out with the only losses being my skeleton spam and a couple afflictions on my pretender, then with his lack of response, I'd say that it isn't "quite an assumption". He had no answer to me, and instead of try and figure one out, he quit.

Now as for my actions after he quit, yes I did exploit the lack of control of his troops. I didn't wait until i was sure he was going to stale before submitting my turn, but after the 2nd stale I had a good idea he wasn't coming back. I ask you this. After fighting and killing him on an even field of battle repeatedly, what would you do?

I feel that I have earned the lands, that this was an inevitibility that just took a few turns less than planned. Maybe he would've found an answer to the skel spam, but the AI wouldn't have, and his position wasn't exactly a great one to get a sub into. You see, his giants never retreated, N9 bless with beserk ftl, so when he lost it hurt his pocket bad. Giants aren't cheap. And by the time I got to his jarl squad leader he was already at 100+ fatigue from casting his own skels(trying to match my many sauromancers with his one jarl wouldn't work). An easy kill for sure.

As for being left with a sour taste in regards to MP play, well what are you going to do? Make sure everyone is equal in skill? I'm the same newbie he is, just that I happened to have a good answer to his poorly chosen bless and battle plans, and beat him into submission. I can't apologize for this. Please remember this, He did not kill ONE of my casters when he was controlling his army while he lost 1000's of gold worth of giants. It's not as if he was effective when he was playing.

However if there is something that you other players feel that I did wrong, I am open to solutions. As for finding a sub, well I own all his lands save 2, his capitol is under siege and with a presumably superior force than his researchers(time will tell).

I will admit fault in not tipping Edi off to turn him to AI 2 turns ago, but what kind of jerk would I have been if he came back wanting to put up a final struggle(who knows maybe he wants to still, one last chance to bloody my nose. I hope he does.)

[Darkstone]

Well, I haven't checked the game today to count Niefel provinces or army strength, but I'll take your word that it's too late to do anything with Niefel. I hereby take back my request for delay, subhunt, or AI.

I also wasn't accusing you of doing anything wrong. I was accusing Niefel (unless of course, he actually has a valid reason). I have no complaints of you beating him over the head with a superior strategy and his losing multiple times with poor execution of his own, I only complain that he staled for 4 turns, and in such a manner, proved less of a challenge than an AI. This is even more significant of a matter in a small 8 player game.

The territory is of course, rightfully yours, no one disputes this (though of course, that will likely change in game later, heh). You have done nothing wrong as far as I can see.

Keep in mind much of what I said earlier, and much of what I continue to state, is not directed at C'tis, or even Niefel directly, but is just in general, my opinion.

The responsibility to play out your game if able, or to find a sub or go AI if unable, is the responsibility of the player in question. While playing a MP game is hardly a commitment of any gravity, it's still not something to be dismissed with the wave of a hand. This is what leaves me the sour taste.

I am of the opinion, that the best games, are games that are also fun to lose. Dominions is one good example.

[Carkaton]

Ya, maybe I overreacted . Anyway I will try to submit Friday after work, after that I will be gone until sunday evening. Probably midnite monday GMT. If we can delay hosting until then I'd much appreciate it.

Edit: to clarify, I should be able to submit turn 27 before I leave. 28 is the one i'll need an extension on.

[Psycho]

This other game I'm playing - Figment (you may want to read the thread, it became very interesting) is hosted on Velusions server which shows whether the player stalled last turn, so everybody has that information. And if anybody stalls for two turns he is turned to AI. I think that is fair.

Carkaton, you exploited the stalling of niefel to take his lands easier than you should probably have. While I don't judge as I would've probably done the same, now that it is discovered that niefel stalled for four turns, I would like to see it turned to AI. As you said yourself, the AI will surely not be a better solution that the player you outsmarted, but is certainly better than nothing. And if you would've taken his lands as easily with him playing his turns, you certainly wouldn't object fighting the AI.

So, Edi, I ask you to turn niefel to AI.

Edit: About delaying the hosting - it's fine by me.

[Carkaton]

Agreed, Niefel should be turned to AI. I should have said something sooner I admit, and expect diplomatic reprecussions. However I will say that at this point, the AI may make it easier for me than no action at all. As I said, his capitol is under siege now. An AI will be more likely to try to break the siege where if no one is playing I will have to storm the castle, which is more difficult. It makes no real difference to me though.

BTW, I didn't mean to make it sound like I outsmarted him, just that our army makeups favored me. While I did set up one trap initially, it just happened that giants have no real killing power against cold resistant undead.

With the bless he had, I don't know if he could have made an effective counter or not. E9 N4-6 would have made his jarls unkillable by the spam and his giants much more difficult, but with no reinvigoration they'd just get wore out.