Warning! Do NOT apply XP SP 3!

[Jack Simth]

Fyron said:
You seem to have missed the point. It wasn't that multiple music players or disc burners will break the system (they won't, unless they come from the likes of Real Media), it was that the users had no idea what they were doing, and installed everything under the sun. This always includes all sorts of malware apps that are the real culprits for system instability.

And yet, the music players, antivirus, firewall, and cd/dvd burning programs that are the ones he specifically listed - stuff that generally comes, not from random downloads off the net, but from boxes sold in stores. So I gave a counterexample where the offical stuff doesn't do that.

Fyron said:
It should be noted that the software that comes on a Knoppix CD (itself a pretty piss-poor OS compared to real Debian or K/Ubuntu)

Sorta. Knoppix is designed primarily for system recovery type applications, or demo disks where you're not sure what system you'll be using for the demo. As such, it's designed to run off the CD. If you actually tell it to install, it gives you a couple of options, and lists Debian as recommended. Which it will then walk you through doing.

I recently installed it on my uncle's computer. I started with attempting to install Ubuntu, but that one ran into an error (related to a missing hardware cable for the clock, I suspect, but I didn't fight with it enough to actually prove that - he basically just uses the box to browse the net) while Knoppix didn't have any issues.

Fyron said:
has been well-tested and vetted before inclusion. The distro makers don't just grab random pieces of software off the net and put them in, as the users that AgentZero is complaining about do.

And yet of the items he listed, most of them come in boxes from stores, professionally sold.

Fyron said:
If you only install well-made software on a Windows box, you'll have no more trouble than only installing well-made software on a *nix box. If you download and install every random piece of software on a *nix box, you will break it just the same as a Windows box.

Actually, to break a *nix box, you pretty much have to use the root password at some point (or interrupt the boot sequence in a particular spot to arrange for root permissions without the root password, but most people don't know how to do that). Windows defaults to the only account being an administrative account, which causes issues as basically everything ends up running with administrative-level permissions, so any old program on the box can do mean things to the box.

[Fyron]

Jack Simth said:
not from random downloads off the net, but from boxes sold in stores

AZ didn't specify what the software was, so this seems to be a dubious supporting argument. I doubt that a system with a ton of different media players and disc burners had many of them come from a store, simply because that tends to get really expensive to purchase, and there are so many freely available on the net (even if some are limited feature versions). Even dumb people have only so much money to waste.

Actually, to break a *nix box, you pretty much have to use the root password at some point..

So what? Any home user is going to have the root password for their box, and put it in when it asks for it. An illiterate user won't magically be protected by user permissions, cause he will figure out how to grant them when the box wants them to. That sort of security is merely an illusion of market share; if Linux were to magically gain a large market share, there would be tons of malware and other poorly authored software for it, getting installed on people's machines.

Windows defaults to the only account being an administrative account, which causes issues as basically everything ends up running with administrative-level permissions, so any old program on the box can do mean things to the box.

Which is why MS put UAC into Vista... You have to explicitly press the OK button when software does something requiring admin privileges, even as an administrative user. Obviously it isn't perfect, and dumb users will click OK anyways. Such access protections help with drive-by installers and such, but they do nothing to stop users wanting to install the latest Bonzai Buddy. This is not something you can fix in any technical fashion, regardless of OS. It requires user education.

[Azselendor]

For all the love Apple gets from it's fanbase, it's truely undeserving of it. Some of apple's policies are down right draconian. If Microsoft pulled the crap they did, Microsoft would be getting bent over a table by Anti-Trust suits.

For example.

I can only use iTunes to load music onto my ipod. Other 3rd party MP3 players allow for USB connections and 3rd party softwares.

Apple includes additional software in it's updates. The infamous Safari-bundled with quicktime and itunes updates.

Apple Patent Mongering.

Itune's online store carries different music prices in different regions. In fact, the EU is on their *** about it.

Songs purchased on itunes may not work on anything but an ipod. A known anti-competitive practice once used with juteboxes and IBM used with system mainframes and microsoft used with servers.

Apple Lisa pricing. If you bought one, you know what I'm talking about.

iPhone is restricted to 3rd party developers, locking out independent programmers and businesses.

Many key software packages that run on apple products can only be obtained from apple or apple-owned subsidiaries.

I can go on.

[Suicide Junkie]

Fyron said:

This is not something you can fix in any technical fashion, regardless of OS. It requires user education.

A technical solution could work, if you allow for invasive surgery.

[Fyron]

That's the wrong kind of technicality, and you know it!