engineers

[istol]

how much does it take for an engineer squad to clear a minefield ?

and how about engineer tank or mineclearing tank how about sappers? (might be same as engineers though)

and i suppose it differs from the size of a minefield ?

how dependaple are those how often they spot the minefield they walk in to ?

and if i say like sniper would walk through 1 mine isn't it little bit uncommon for it to walk in it ? even for 10 men

what you think is 1 mine in map just 1 mine or does it represent a larger minefield i mean c'mon 50x50m hex and 1 mine in it how fortunate to find it there ?

[Griefbringer]

Game manual seems to have a number of things to say on this:

Originally Posted by Game manual

1] A "mine" is not "1 mine" but a random small number of mines. It is a symbol for a mined area and may be 2 mines or it may be 8 mines. ( or 3 or 5.....) If there are more than one "mine" symbols then there are PROBABLY more "mines" in that hex but if the random number generated hit's low for a three symbol cluster that hex MAY ONLY have three mines in it and if it hits high a 1 symbol mined area may have 8 mines. Those random numbers are there to eliminate the certainty of mine clearing.

2] Regular infantry squads will only clear mines if they are IN the minefield. Engineer units ( including mine clearing tanks ) will also clear mines from "outside" the field, if pointed at (facing) that hex.

3] Engineer infantry and vehicles clear mines faster than regular infantry. Because there are random numbers of mines and random numbers generated for mine clearing itself it is not possible to say definitively that "engineers clear mines 3x faster than infantry" because there are many factors built into the game to REMOVE the certainty that X action will take Y amount of time. If the unit removing mines moves that turn it can reduce the number of mines that can be removed on THAT turn. If they fire it slows down mine clearing. If they are fired on it slows down ( or halts altogether ) mine clearing. However, all things being equal the engineer type units WILL clear a given number of mines faster than a regular infantry unit.

4] Regular infantry, because they ONLY ( slowly ) clear mines from the hex they are in, can face in any direction while they do it. Engineer and mine clearing vehicles MUST face toward the hex they are the clearing mines from, if clearing from the hex alongside. If you face them away from a mined area or obstacle they will NOT clear it.

5] If there is a message ...... "XXX CLEARS 2 MINES " then 2 of the random number of mines in that mined area have been removed. When the message reads "XXX CLEARS A PATH THROUGH THE MINES" means all mines in that hex have been removed.

6] Experience plays a very important part in how fast a unit will clear a mined area. In one experiment, 4 engineer units with 30 experience and 4 engineer units with 120 experience were each placed in front of a mined hex. The expert units cleared their mined areas in 1-2 turns. The 4 green engineers took 7-9 turns to clear all four of their mined areas.

So essentially, time taken to clear a minefield varies. If you really need to clear it fast, then I would recommend concentrating multiple units to clear a single hex, rather than every engineer in the hex clearing a different hex. Presumably dedicated mineclearing tanks are a bit more effective than more generic engineer tanks in mineclearing.

BTW: notice that not all the mines are of the type you need to step on - there are also mines and booby traps that are triggered by an unlucky grunt walking into a tripwire.

Griefbringer

[Koh]

On the dependability of engineering units on detecting minefields, I don't think I've ever had an engineer squad walk into a minefield before detecting it. However on numerous occasions I've had fast moving mineclearing vehicles immobilised by minefield they drove into before detecting it. I'm assuming that the moving speed of the unit affects if it will detect the minefield or walk into it. Have an engineer squad or vehicle stand still and it will detect mines several hexes away, have it blazing in at full speed and they might just be unlucky enough to completely miss the minefield and lose a leg or two.

And when it comes demining speed, I don't think engineers, pioneers or such are any different. The game manual lists them all as clones of each other.

UnitClass 20=Engineer Infantry clone, clears mines and DT
UnitClass 140=Pioneers Engineer clone

etc and

UnitClass 36=Mine Clearing Tank Clears mines and DT
UnitClass 37=Engineer Tank Clone of 36, Clears mines and DT

- Koh

[PanzerBob]

The names are for the most part what various armies call them, in some cases it may show that they are considered more of an elite unit with a pioneer designation or more combat/assault orientated. For mineclearing purposes keeping them under cover and unsuppressed is going to get you the best results. As for detection that tends to be the job of scouts and or patrols although attaching a engineer/poineer squad to these units doesn't hurt.

Bob out

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

The names are for the most part what various armies call them, in some cases it may show that they are considered more of an elite unit with a pioneer designation or more combat/assault orientated. For mineclearing purposes keeping them under cover and unsuppressed is going to get you the best results. As for detection that tends to be the job of scouts and or patrols although attaching a engineer/poineer squad to these units doesn't hurt.

Bob out

yeah, but your pioneer unit is probably size 1, so it would reveal you positions, also, can regular troops clear mines?

[Koh]

Regular troops can clear mines in the hex they are currently occupying.

- Koh

[PanzerBob]

Originally Posted by Koh

Regular troops can clear mines in the hex they are currently occupying.

- Koh

...and at a much slower rate.

Bob out

[PanzerBob]

Originally Posted by iCaMpWiThAWP

yeah, but your pioneer unit is probably size 1, so it would reveal you positions, also, can regular troops clear mines?

This is certainly a command decision, for myself I would have my Recce units under armour anyway, move to a safe spot to unload near the area to be recon'd then move the scouts into the area, and then the Engineers to begin the clearing, likely after smoking the area or hopefully in a area out of sight. (Not likely if the opponent is human).

The other method is a mounted recce with a mounted Engineer Response team / Asset. Always with these type of missions danger is high. Having several teams play decoy from the real breach location should be helpful as well. Having preplanned fire missions ready to hit the likely areas overwatching the obstacle would advised if possible. An assault against a prepared enemy is most vulnerable at this point in the attack. Planning should also include a Plan B and even C resource dependent of course.

Larger Unit assaults have more available to carry out careful planning. Smaller Unit actions tend to be come as you are. IMHO (in my humble opinion)

Assault actions against higher Tech Enemies make for more problems to contend with as well. Having the enemy drop minelets on your nicely created breach with your Armoured Spearhead passing though can simply ruin you day!!!

All and all as in real life mines really suck!!!

Bob out