Weapon Stats

[WarrenOzz]

Hi All,

Apologies for asking a stupid question. I`ve read the game manual but don`t understand some of the details in the encyclopaedia.

For the PzKW IIIh, I have stats for ACC, Kill, PEN, HEAT, APCR & Range.

The main gun has ammo for HE, AP & Sabot rounds.

Why are there two entires for Kill, PEN and Range??

What exactly does APCR mean and apply to?? Is it constant?? I guess that Sabot rounds rely on velocity to achieve a kill - therefor the further away from the target you are the less chance of a penetration....??

Or are Sabot & APCR different things!?!

Apologies if I`m asking stupid questions but any help with exactly what all these things mean would be appreciated.

This is a great game and I`m addicted!

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by WarrenOzz

Hi All,

Apologies for asking a stupid question. I`ve read the game manual but don`t understand some of the details in the encyclopaedia.

For the PzKW IIIh, I have stats for ACC, Kill, PEN, HEAT, APCR & Range.

The main gun has ammo for HE, AP & Sabot rounds.

Why are there two entires for Kill, PEN and Range??

What exactly does APCR mean and apply to?? Is it constant?? I guess that Sabot rounds rely on velocity to achieve a kill - therefor the further away from the target you are the less chance of a penetration....??

Or are Sabot & APCR different things!?!

Apologies if I`m asking stupid questions but any help with exactly what all these things mean would be appreciated.

This is a great game and I`m addicted!

See the the Game Guide Game Guide, Encyclopaedia Screen-> see the final 3 paragraphs of that section, and the table titled "weapon". That gives a general description of the 4 AP values a unit can have (HE:AP HEAT APCR) for HE Armour Piercing, HEAT and Sabot and the 2 ranges. Sabot range applies to the sabot round only, and it may differ from the range used for HE, HEAT & AP ammo.

The game uses "Sabot/HVAP/APCR" interchangeably as a label for the special round No.2 of weapon No.1 of a unit. The ammo will usually have a greater AP value than the normal round. Sabot special rounds will tend to have a longer sabot range than APCR/HVAP, which will be shorter sabot range for a quicker pull-down of AP effectiveness over range. Compare your ammo with a UK 17 pounder for example and you will see that you have APCR/HVAP (which keeps the light alloy wind shield attached to the shell so slows down fast like a shuttlecock) and the British gun has a nice long range so is firing true APDS and discards the sabot petals at the muzzle.

The AP value for kinetic energy rounds will drop based on how much of the total range has been traversed. A weapon with 20 penetration and 30 range will have very little poke left at 25 hexes, whereas one with 20 pen and 90 range will still have a reasonable amount left at that range.

HEAT is generally a constant, since it is a chemical energy round after all. i.e. basically a bomb.


If you have a query about the game technical data, then the first place to look for "nuts and bolts" descriptions is in the Mobhack help.

Game Options->Help Tab->Mobhack Help
or If Mobhack is running, then use the help menu item or the button on the load page to launch the help file.

Then see Weapons Tab-> Sabot Penetration and the following Sabot Range paragraphs.


Cheers
Andy

Also - if you don't know what an acronym means then simply typing it into Google usually finds it in a few seconds.
Typing APCR gave a Wikipedia article as result #2, with a précis that looked relevant:

The APCR projectile is a core of a high-density hard material such as tungsten carbide surrounded by a full-bore shell of a lighter material (e.g.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(projectile)

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by WarrenOzz

Hi All,

Apologies for asking a stupid question. I`ve read the game manual but don`t understand some of the details in the encyclopaedia.

For the PzKW IIIh, I have stats for ACC, Kill, PEN, HEAT, APCR & Range.

The main gun has ammo for HE, AP & Sabot rounds.

Why are there two entires for Kill, PEN and Range??

What exactly does APCR mean and apply to?? Is it constant?? I guess that Sabot rounds rely on velocity to achieve a kill - therefor the further away from the target you are the less chance of a penetration....??

Or are Sabot & APCR different things!?!

Apologies if I`m asking stupid questions but any help with exactly what all these things mean would be appreciated.

This is a great game and I`m addicted!

No reason to apologize for asking questions. It's the best way to find things out.

ACC = Accuracy, the higher the number the better.

Kill = The first value is for HE ammo, the second is for AP ammo.

PEN = The first value is armor penetration for HE, second for AP ammo.

HEAT = Armor penetration for HEAT rounds.

APCR = Armor penetration for SABOT rounds. For game purposes APCR is the same as SABOT.

Range = The first number is the maximum range of the weapon. The second number can have different meanings, depending on the type of weapons. It can be a minimum range for indirect fire weapons. If the weapon fires APCR/SABOT rounds, I believe it's the maximum range for that ammo type. Not sure on that one.

APCR/SABOT rounds are tank killing rounds that have a denser core than normal AP rounds, allowing them to penetrate thicker armor. Because of design, they end up traveling at a higher rate of speed than normal AP rounds. Being denser and hitting at a higher speed, they have more kinetic energy and go through more armor.

In reality, SABOT rounds are different than APCR rounds, but the game treats them the same. APCR rounds have have tended to have a tungsten core with a lighter outer shell. The problem with these rounds is they weren't ballistically stable over longer ranges. That's why these rounds would have a lower maximum range. SABOT has an outer sleeve that sheds when the round leaves the gun tube. The projectile flying is like the inner core of an APCR round, but it doesn't have the light outer shell. SABOT rounds are more stable in flight over longer distances.

That's the short answer for stuff. APCR in game terms might actually include other round types as well, but I didn't want to confuse things.

[gila]

Originally Posted by WarrenOzz

Hi All,

Apologies for asking a stupid question. I`ve read the game manual but don`t understand some of the details in the encyclopaedia.

For the PzKW IIIh, I have stats for ACC, Kill, PEN, HEAT, APCR & Range.

The main gun has ammo for HE, AP & Sabot rounds.

Why are there two entires for Kill, PEN and Range??

What exactly does APCR mean and apply to?? Is it constant?? I guess that Sabot rounds rely on velocity to achieve a kill - therefor the further away from the target you are the less chance of a penetration....??

Or are Sabot & APCR different things!?!

Apologies if I`m asking stupid questions but any help with exactly what all these things mean would be appreciated.

This is a great game and I`m addicted!

Don't get to confused by all the tech values.
It has a influence on whether you land a shot,or not.
But the game does all the computing for you.
What makes a good commander,I'm thinking is having the rightand hopefully experienced unit for the job,
And then click and pray
And yes i love this game also

[gila]

Originally Posted by RERomine

No reason to apologize for asking questions. It's the best way to find things out.

ACC = Accuracy, the higher the number the better.

Kill = The first value is for HE ammo, the second is for AP ammo.

PEN = The first value is armor penetration for HE, second for AP ammo.

HEAT = Armor penetration for HEAT rounds.

APCR = Armor penetration for SABOT rounds. For game purposes APCR is the same as SABOT.

Range = The first number is the maximum range of the weapon. The second number can have different meanings, depending on the type of weapons. It can be a minimum range for indirect fire weapons. If the weapon fires APCR/SABOT rounds, I believe it's the maximum range for that ammo type. Not sure on that one.

APCR/SABOT rounds are tank killing rounds that have a denser core than normal AP rounds, allowing them to penetrate thicker armor. Because of design, they end up traveling at a higher rate of speed than normal AP rounds. Being denser and hitting at a higher speed, they have more kinetic energy and go through more armor.

In reality, SABOT rounds are different than APCR rounds, but the game treats them the same. APCR rounds have have tended to have a tungsten core with a lighter outer shell. The problem with these rounds is they weren't ballistically stable over longer ranges. That's why these rounds would have a lower maximum range. SABOT has an outer sleeve that sheds when the round leaves the gun tube. The projectile flying is like the inner core of an APCR round, but it doesn't have the light outer shell. SABOT rounds are more stable in flight over longer distances.

That's the short answer for stuff. APCR in game terms might actually include other round types as well, but I didn't want to confuse things.

Thanks RERomine,
I remember the board games when you had to do all the modifiers
Anyone else?
Thank gawd! we got computors now

[DRG]

In the spirt of making the game guide clearer for newbies could you please tell exactly how any of the info you got here differed from the info in the section of the game guide that Andy mentioned ?

Don

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by DRG

In the spirt of making the game guide clearer for newbies could you please tell exactly how any of the info you got here differed from the info in the section of the game guide that Andy mentioned ?

Don

It doesn't seem to differ significantly, other than in phrasing.

When I started to respond, there wasn't an response to the initial post. I saw Andy's response after clicked "Submit Reply", so the major difference is Andy types faster than I do

No confusion intended.

[WarrenOzz]

Thanks all for your replies - much appreciated.

Understand it now - it was all in the game guide but didn`t go into my head.... The Mobhack link helped as well - thanks for that.

Guess most of it is using the right tool for the job - experience matters.

As Gila states "click and pray"!

I have developed a hatred for 40mm AA guns.....
Learning to slowly probe to find them and stick as much artillery on them as I can.

Also - for any others learning the game like me - try and get to a big a map size as possible. This gives much more freedom for "invention & manoeuvre". This helped me with the learning curve. (slightly off-post!)

[gila]

Originally Posted by WarrenOzz

I have developed a hatred for 40mm AA guns.....
Learning to slowly probe to find them and stick as much artillery on them as I can.

Try getting a sniper in trees one or two turns and poof! they gone