Elusive Italians

[Wdll]

And I thought the greek Kentauros was bad with 5 and 10.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Imp

The game seems to assume they fire in 10 round bursts looking at real life ammo loadouts & those provided in game I am wondering if this might be a bit high & considering adjusting to say 7 or so maybe 5 in some cases. I have not looked at in detail but 20mm cannon esp tend to have a low ammo load. This may well be justified due to high ROF to make up for the caliber I just would appreciate your thoughts on the mater.
From a purely game point of view if sticking with Italians you take Fiat Oto 6616-A armoured car it carries 12 shots 6 HE & 6 anti vehicle & is by no means the worst.

I would not get to hung up on the "10 round bursts". It is just a quick rule of thumb. The 25mm M242 used in the american OOBs seem to assume 15 rounds burst when you check real life listed ammo loadouts against game ones.
With these weapons you have to account for vehicles ammo load, ROF, ammo mixture (AP mixed among HE or dual feed capability for example) and probably others factors as well.

That being said some italian sources credit the 6616 with a capacity for 650 rounds.12 shots with a HE kill of just 13 seems suspiciously low.
However now I don't have the time for the sort of research and comparisons necessary to make a robust case for changing it. There are a lot of 20mm users in the game.

[Imp]

Cheers for having a quick look that was indeed what I did simply because have noticed several vehicles are capable really of only hit & run tactics due to loadouts. 65 shots would be going to the other extreme & really just wanted confirmation I was not being silly. Obviosly increased loadouts will push up the cost but will see what the guide has to say on the subject. I have a funny feeling some are based on whats in the magazine & some the total loadout depending on who did it

[Wdll]

I don't know what is realistic. But when the above Italian has 6 and 6 and the greek has 5 and 10 and the british scorpion has 38 and 38, then it just doesn't feel right.

[Imp]

Pretty much why I thought it strange & had a quick look in the first place, according to Marcellos source they both in fact have similar loadouts 65 vs 76 shots instead of 12

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Wdll

I don't know what is realistic. But when the above Italian has 6 and 6 and the greek has 5 and 10 and the british scorpion has 38 and 38, then it just doesn't feel right.

That would be a lot of 76mm then! - Scimitar, Shirley !. (and 27 + 28 usually)

The Rarden is not an autocannon, per se. It is a rather accurate self-loading 30mm with the ability to fire a maximum of 2 clips of 3 at a rather low (180RPM?) rate if required (AA fire really).

So it's classed as an autocannon weapon class 19 simply to enable the odd blast of auto at passing helos, but fire at ground targets will mainly be 1-2 rounds each individually triggered, not default bursts of 5-10 as with other autocannons. Thus the ammo lasts longer for a given quantity.

Andy

[Imp]

As usual looking at this is not a simple mater then that makes sense & I am assuming without checking that my percieved view that some 20mm have low loads is due to high ROF as in number of shells in a burst.

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

That would be a lot of 76mm then! - Scimitar, Shirley !. (and 27 + 28 usually)

The Rarden is not an autocannon, per se. It is a rather accurate self-loading 30mm with the ability to fire a maximum of 2 clips of 3 at a rather low (180RPM?) rate if required (AA fire really).

So it's classed as an autocannon weapon class 19 simply to enable the odd blast of auto at passing helos, but fire at ground targets will mainly be 1-2 rounds each individually triggered, not default bursts of 5-10 as with other autocannons. Thus the ammo lasts longer for a given quantity.

Andy

Actually no. I was wrong for the name but I meant to say Warrior II. It has 30mm and 38 and 38.

[Imp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp
Perhaps because seems quite a strange army looking at its MBT certainly not pitched against Russia it would struggle against forces in the Balkans area. There is a nice SP ATGM but the infantry dont get many & indeed decent RPGs are a bit thin on the ground.

In the Cold War I believe the italian army was expected to deal with with was what left of a mainly hungarian force after they had knocked out Austria (we had some thread there which detailed how the hungarians were expecting to be essentially massacred in Austria); which to say not much in all likelihood. Yugoslavia could have been an other enemy, at least theoretically.
So we are speaking about mostly 2nd line forces with upgraded
T-55s and vanilla T-72s at most.
Nowadays we doing coalition warfare/peacekeeping on a shoestring budget; the Ariete and available antitank weapons are good enough for such scenarios. There is not need to match late Abrams or Leopard and doing so would be an useless extravaganza which would rob some more pressing need. For example there are some plans to build an heavy APC, such a thing would be more useful than some uber APFSDS.

Just want to say thanks for this & other input Marcello it has been an intresting exercise playing these what ifs out.