Bug: Post 1.06 Patch Bug List

[spillblood]

That goes to Shrapnel: Changelogs would be nice to know what's been fixed in each new patch. Will they only be part of the final patch?

[JCrowe]

Version 1.08??

Dang it, I only just got started on v1.07!! Well, when it rains it pours. Below's what I've got on that ancient wreck, v1.07. I'll start fiddling with v1.08 as soon as time allows.


Initial Impressions of v1.07


I haven’t had the time to run too many scenarios with the new update, but from what I’ve seen so far, there are both points of promise and delight intermixed with the foibles and faults of the old. We’ve been told that WS is still a work-in-progress

IN BRIEF ....

GOOD STUFF
- Unit Balance is much improved, and it shows
- AI is far quicker to seize territory & earn big victory bucks
- AI is much more flexible with its naval units
- Nukes are less restricted (Go Atoms!)

WORKS-IN-PROGRESS
- Unit balances still need tweaking
*Beware the All-Mighty Supercruiser
* Wherefore Art Thou, ‘Chopper’?
- Advanced tech costs the same as old tech (?)
- AI is Tech-Obsessed (to a fault)
- AI responds poorly to local threats

AS YET UNDETERMINED ...
- Is the AI still limiting itself to one attack per turn?


DETAIL IN DEPTH

Air power still predominates, but not nearly to the unrestrained degree it once enjoyed. And if AAA is present, the equation shifts notably to the advantage of ground forces. Tanks and rocket artillery units suddenly have value beyond being mere grabbers of turf, scurrying behind in the wake of your airborne fury. The rebalance was strong enough that I find myself unable to simply steamroll over all the neutral armies I encounter with whatever fragmentary forces of mine happen to reach them first. Instead, I’ve been forced to ‘sit’ and build combined assault forces to pound some of the larger redoubts into the ground. A slow process in a neutral-happy world. I found myself pushed to ‘hopscotch’ around many of the neutrals to seize unoccupied territory in order to earn direly-needed “beginner’s cash” for rapid construction of my hellforesaken Nixon-esque military-industrial complex.
It’s also been an eye-opener to see some of the AI competitors not only match my acquisition of land, but to see them exceed it as well, and by fair margins at times. It goes without saying that a players in a game like WS never ever want to be behind the old eight-ball on resource exploitation. A long stay there is a sure path to irrelevancy - and brutal extermination.

The AI is also clearly putting more thought into the development of its naval forces and their deployment. Not always making good choices, but certainly better ones than it was once wont to do.

So ... ‘yay’!

Still, there are areas as yet incomplete. To my mind, cruisers remain wholly unchallenged in terms of naval dominance, and god help the poor fool who wagers otherwise with his men and hard-earned steel. Choppers are cute (aww – lookit the chain gun animation!!), but I still fail to perceive any value argument for their use. Sure, cheaper dollar-wise than a Fighter Jet, but more vulnerable to AAA and less adept at stomping all the dirt-draggers swarming beneath their heavenly feet.

Meh.

Again, this is just my initial impression, based on limited scenario plays, and it may evolve with time and experience.

Another area needing attention is the AI – as Aaron himself has noted. It’s more assertive and spicy, but weaknesses abound. For example, I’m impressed at its newfound ability to rapidly acquire territory, even in the face of neutral obstacles. But I’m perplexed by how it appears to leverage this advantage. The new AI seems pretty obsessed with tech development. It pushes new tech with urgency – so much so, that it sacrifices the demands of the present for the needs of the future. Level 3 Stealth Fighter tech is way cool, but it’s not that useful if you can’t build any jets because you’re plowing cash into tech investments. I often end up way ‘behind’ on tech, but with a military so powerful with the basic units that it doesn’t matter. Tech toys only have value if you can build the things, not just stare at them and grope at their brochures as your mind races with prurient dreams of bloodsome conquest.

Speaking of tech, I begin to wonder if it makes sense that more advanced units should continue costing the same as their older incarnations. Basic Regular Bomber - $36 million. Fancy Super-Techno Level 3 “Lord of Flying Death” Stealth Ultra-Bomber .... $36 million. (!) You don’t even have to pay shipping or sales tax! Sure, you have to pay for the scientific research, but at $50 million a pop for a 75% chance of return ... that’s hardly much of a barrier to development.

One last point of note – despite the improvements, the AI does not seem to respond well to local threats. It expands, but doesn’t seem to plan for contingencies, such as ‘what do I do if I bump into another player in the west?’ One good ‘hit’ to a ‘mustering’ area, and its local defense usually falls apart – completely. It has trouble deciding where to draw a new line, what sacrifices it will have to accept and to what extent, and where and how it will construct a defense or launch a counter-attack. I seem to hit these guys and roll them up like yesterday’s news. The AI seems to prefer building reinforcements way, waaay behind the front lines and deploying them piecemeal to the front. And for all its tech investments, when my air fleets of auto-death start sailing in from the periphery, the AIs never mass-build AAA or fighters as a counter.

PS. I’d also note that for all the cash the AI will invest in Tech, it will not invest the same in capital. That is to say, it doesn’t build cities, even on 12-point resource territories that practically scream for real-estate development.

[JCrowe]

NOW we're talkin' gravy!

v1.08 Field Tested Tonight, and what a difference it is.

AI is significantly improved. It expands very well, does a decent job of slapping neutrals, and builds defensive forces that require more than a sneeze to knock over. Even counterattacks on occasion. Still relatively easy to beat, but you need to be cautious - and watch out for marauding fleets off your coast.

And buggers! The AI is leveraging its tech! (I started tonight's scenario with gigantic map, neutral, maximum computer players, lowest starting tech, resources, etc. - great way to stress-test the AI.) It invests in anti-air almost immediately, and you wouldn't believe how rapidly AAA starts to blossom. S.O.B. even built AAA emplacements to guard a city that gave me hell.

And there's another point - I'd swear that the AI is investing in cities. Caught one empire with its metaphorical pants down and stormed his mid-section hard. Found a bunch of 11- and 12-point territories (lucky sod) that all had double-cities. I've never seen that randomly generate. AI was evaluating the strength of respective territories and must have been deliberating picking the best for improvement.

Oh, and let's not forget CHOPPERS! They mean something now! Slow and less versatile than jets, but they now pack a mean anti-surface wallop that the cloud-chasers can't match (until strategic air gets called-in). At $16 mil a pop, I'm buying in bulk. Total ELF-WRANGLERS.

WEAK POINT IN THE NEW AI

This one can go right out to Aaron - the AI is investing deeply in cities, tech, ground units that matter, and the best the navy has to offer. HOWEVER ... note the absence of an aerial component. Very few bombers, fewer fighters, and chopper one-offs. Major avoidance. Great that it will build AAA and use it appropriately, but jets are still super dangerous. AI needs to rebalance its priorities and recognize the authority of air power. You are NOT going to win this on the ground alone.

The AI also still needs to do a better job of planning its response to attack or the threat of invasion. I saw them, they saw me, now see my death fleet a-massing to come and stomp thee ... and what are you doing - macrame? Time to rebalance and reprioritize. Put down the tech guys, sideline the tanks, and turn up the budget on jets and AAA, baby, 'cause Step-Daddy's comin' home with Jackie D in one and a baseball bat in the other.

[JCrowe]

Originally Posted by spillblood

That goes to Shrapnel: Changelogs would be nice to know what's been fixed in each new patch. Will they only be part of the final patch?

'Spill - they got it covered, they just don't advertise all the features & functions. When you first open WS and it hits you with that pop-up box for "PLAY GAME" and etc., pick the one marked "HISTORY". That will read off the patches and the fixes they were targeting.

Another feature that I had missed was the bar in the tactical screen - very top, with the unit icons. I originally thought it was wallpapering. Did not realize it was a scroll for initiative. Reads from left-to-right in order of play. Easy to miss; again, bad advertising.

[spillblood]

Hey, thanks for these detailed first impressions of the new patches, JCrowe. I played one game with big detailed map so far. I started it in V 1.07 and about midway installed 1.08. I immediately noticed differences between the two versions. The game had one big continent in the east in two smaller ones in the west. I managed to conquer most of the big continent in the first session, installed V 1.08 and conquered the rest of the world. With 1.08 one of the AIs was able to mount an invasion of the big continent that was already under my control and used a captured factory to build some more troops. Never saw that in the previous versions. I also saw one of the AI players bombard a neutral territory with a nuke and take it. The AI also knows how to use carriers now. They loaded a bunch of planes on a carrier one time and attacked one my fleets with them. In previous versions the AI never attacked fleets with planes. Planes now seem to be more effective against ships, but pretty useless against subs.
I was nuked occasionally, but never to such an extent than my own nuclear attacks. My favourite tactic is to build around 20 or 30 nukes and wipe everything in reach clean to take it easily. There really should be some anti-nuke system to prevent such a tactic 'cause the AI simply can't defend against a massive nuclear assault. Another option would be to increase buying costs or better, maintenance costs of nukes to prevent players from buying massive nuclear arsenals.
It also still tends to go against weaker players or neutrals instead of mounting successful counter offensives. It was pretty easy to conquer the remaining two continents in the west.
The AI needs to employ more tactics, effectively prepare attacks with nuclear or cruiser fire and it should try to counter offensives with the appropriate troops. That would make the game more challenging. I'll play another game to how I fare in a game that was started in 1.08.
Hehe, by the way, I also wondered what this iniative bar was for earlier, but someone in the forum told me that it's showing the turn order of units in combat.

[spillblood]

Anyway, congrats to Aaron. The game is definitely moving in the right direction.

[spillblood]

Some visual glitches I noticed: Helicopter fire sometimes disappears and seems to be coming from the opposite side of the enemy. For example, when I have a helicopter to the left of an enemy and attack, the effect suddenly disappears and seems to be coming from the right edge of the screen, with the same angle as before (and it still goes in the direction of the enemy). Looks strange. Another thing: (Nuclear) Missiles sometimes take strange, looping paths shaped like the number 8 to their targets, and explosions often appear before missiles have hit their targets. Sometimes the game hangs shortly (mostly when a rocket artillery fires), the missiles disappear and suddenly appear before the enemy and hit him. Other kind of battle effects appear normal, there are only problems with artillery missiles and nuclear missiles.

[JCrowe]

Originally Posted by spillblood

I was nuked occasionally, but never to such an extent than my own nuclear attacks. My favourite tactic is to build around 20 or 30 nukes and wipe everything in reach clean to take it easily. There really should be some anti-nuke system to prevent such a tactic 'cause the AI simply can't defend against a massive nuclear assault.

... And can you imagine what might happen if two opposing teams BOTH decided to play this same 'Bomb Card', and built a mass arsenal of warheads, and then starting chucking away at one another with raw abandon? It would be a nuclear firestorm of radioactive fury that would devour the heart of the world ... and spit it up as an overdone 'burger. Seriously - how could anyone make progress? Some dude sneezes, a mouse twitches, and BAM! BAM! BAM! Cooked, fried, Nuked. Forget invading. (Although subs, for some reason (?) get a nuclear "pass" in game versions 1.07 & 1.08. But you can't claim turf with those pearl-divers, so you end up in the same place anyway - stalemate.)

In The Great Manifesto, Chapters 3 and 9, subsections 7 and 49, I brought up the need to nerf the nukes in some way. In verses 24-38 of the Great Book, I outlined two possible suggestions for blunting the nuclear impact without actually turning them into watered-down CHEESE SAUCE.

1.) "Star Wars" Option. Or think "Patriot Missile".

Basically, give AAA units the capacity to intercept inbound ballistic missiles. AA emplacements, for example, might have a 10% chance of shooting down any nuke targeting their territory OR AN ADJACENT TERRITORY. The ability would be cumulative, with two emplacements granting a 20% chance, 3 emplacements = 30%, etc. up to some pre-determined cap. Maybe 60 or 70%. That way, there's a decent probability of dodging a couple hits, but never so much that nukes become effectively impotent.

Missile defense could extend to cover against ballistic strikes from subs and mobile launchers, too. Mobile AA units, just like the fixed emplacements, might also possess an intercept capability - although far less in scope. Maybe they can only cover the territory in which they are located (minimal umbrella) and only provide a 5% chance of intercept per unit, up to a lower [pre-determined maximum limit.


2.) "International Opprobium"

Basically, using nukes makes the player a "bad guy", which is to say that it paints a huge bulls-eye on your backside. There are a couple layers to this, but in simple terms ...

DETECTION - If the AI detects the presence of nukes, it automatically arms up with missiles and spreads them out, so that it will not be caught flat-footed by a nuclear attack - nor will it potentially lose its own entire store of nukes in a single strike. MAD don't work when only one side's got The Bomb. Everyone needs a little atomic love to play, so when the nukes start to spring forth on one side, the other teams need to arm up or they're just sitting ducks.

CASTIGATION - If someone actually uses a nuke, that fact is broadcast to all players in the game, and the first-strike user becomes a "marked man". Basically, we know EXACTLY what 'you did last summer', and we expect nothing but the same next time around. So ... we aren't waiting for the encore; we're going to beat you to the punch. If Red Team nuked Blue, then Green Team (who has not yet encountered Red) arms up with nukes, and when Green eventually meets Red, Green gets prejudicial with the plutonium.

This way, using nukes carries real repercussions. You immediately become a target for nuclear attack, and other parties will be much less reticent to open fire than they would have been otherwise. So while bombing a beachhead or wiping the slate clean on an unfriendly continent might be a great first move, the player now has to deal with the fact that everyone and his PLAID CHAIR granny will be tossing A-bombs in his backyard, too. And it ain't nearly so much fun to be on the receiving end as it is to be on the delivering.

[spillblood]

Yes, that are both good ways to make nukes less overpowered. But maybe new kinds of units especially for nuke defense could be introduced instead of using the existing anti-aircraft units. The second option would require some kind of diplomacy system, I think (which would be nice).

[spillblood]

One more thing I've noticed in the last games: When an AI player is defeated and still has fleets left (on some sea territories), they don't move. They just remain in the territory where they were left when the AI lost all its territories. Would be cooler when they'd do some last kamikaze attacks.