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Old March 29th, 2012, 09:55 AM

Warhammer Warhammer is offline
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Introductions, early game posturing underway)

My bonds have loosened... My pain has subsided... Something has happened. I must contact my priests. The fact I am still here means they have not lost faith.

I sense great death. Is it the future? No, the Pantokrator must have died! Great times are afoot. I must not loose a minute, I must break these bonds!


I am Warhammer. I have played Dominions 3 for years, actually won a newbie game (well a 3 way draw actually) way back when. But, my MP experience since then has been poor. While I am not a great player, I don't think I am a schlub either. This is my first game with CBM 1.6+ so most of the new spells are new to me as well.

My full write up on Caelum will be discussed in my first turn AAR in about 20 turns, but suffice to say that they have been one of my favorite nations from the start. I wrote/started an early strategy thread regarding them. I love these guys because they have several viable ways to play, although most wind up at the same end point.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Introductions, early game posturing underway)



CHAPTER 0: Time of the Abowhatsits

So this is my 3rd real MP game, and I'll be playing... R'lyeh?
I'm pretty sure I picked Oceania -- how weird. I don't
remember... Oh, whatever, too late to back out now. Still, this
is going to take some thought.

We're playing CBM 1.92, which means there's a lot of changes from
vanilla, not only the general ones, but also specific to EA
R'lyeh. Mainly in vanilla the freespawn and better mages are
aquatic, while in CBM they're all amphibious, but slightly nerfed
path-wise in the case of the mages. Still a positive change all
in all. Let's look at what we've got more closely... and if you're already familiar with EA R'lyeh you will probably want to skip this. Except perhaps to gloat at my missing the totally obvious strengths of this or that super unit...



COMMANDERS

* an amphibious Scout: Well, it would suck if they weren't. Amphibious, that is. This gives them a lot of mobility (apart from making them usable under water in the first place).



* Slave Priest: It's an enslaved merman that prays to the god so his masters don't have to. Genius! I'll get one to search the seafloor for holy sites and build temples.



* Slave Prince: In case I need someone with regular leadership that can also go under the sea.



* Polypal Mother: Immobile. This would suck on a priest, but the map will be really hard on my dominion, since every one of the water provinces borders a ton of land provinces, so I'll get a bunch for preaching anyway. Also they freespawn polypal spawn and gibodai. Once the mothers have preached dominion as high as they can, they're available to Call God. This may come in handy. So 50 gold for a H2 priest is a steal. The most important thing is of course that they're female, so they can't be seduced.



* Slave Mage: I have tons of magical units that need magic leadership. These guys are my cheapest option. They have a WESN random: the earth picks can wear Boots of the Earth on land, the nature picks will be sitesearching and later summon naiads, a W3N3 mage. I need at least one of the nature guys.



* Aboleth: CBM makes them amphibious, they have 2W2S + 1*WESD. More durable than slave mages, but only 2 misc slots. So they have the problem that they can't wear a lot of the path booster items.



* Mind Lord: an aboleth that's all growed up: 2W3S + 2*WESD and 3 misc slots. A lot tougher and gets 2 enslave mind attacks per round which is even better with quicken self, so Alt 2 could be an early research target. Stunningly expensive and not holy, so the upkeep will be painful. Won't recruit a lot. Not all that many. Not-- THE MIND LORDS DEMAND TO BE RECRUITED. They are cap-only.



TROOPS

* several types of enslaved sea people: fast aquatic tritons, fast amphibious mermen and slow amphibious atlanteans. They all have really bad morale and generally suck. The amphibious ones I'll maybe recruit -- one flavor of merman has nets.

* Lobo Guard: they are the definition of chaff. There is a little picture of them right there, that's the definition. They're mindless, so they don't rout. They're magical, so they require magical instead of the regular kind of leadership. At 1 resources they are easy to mass.



* Shambler Thrall: the lobo guards' big brothers. They are size 3 however, and can trample human-sized infantry. If they don't rout the target squad in the first round of they're attack, they're large low-def low-prot units surrounded by the enemy, so will tend to take a lot of losses. On the other hand, they'll inflict them, too. Situational.



* Slave Troll: recruitable Sea Trolls! Thank you, CBM. While regenerating poison-immune bags of hitpoints are awesome, they do have some weaknesses. They get hit a lot, and if they get swarmed, that regen won't help them much. Then I'm out of 70 gold per pop. And while they have good morale, I still want at least 5 of them in a squad so they don't have to roll morale every round. Preferably a few more. That's expensive.



* Giboleth/Gibodai: the mindblasters. Gibodai are holy and cap only, Giboleth are recruit anywhere and not. However, the former also freespawn from polypal mothers sometimes. What is a mindblast, you ask? (probably not, but in case you do It's a can't-miss long-range paralyzation attack (may also do some real damage) that's resistable by MR. It helps those clumsy slave trolls hit things.




* Polypal Spawn: this one you can't recruit. Baby aboleths. Yes, I will be using child soldiers. They're aged one out of an old age limit of three milliennia. I wonder if they'll turn into an aboleth if they're hit with a couple of decays? Size one, low HP, low strength, but reasonable protection and MR. The picture doesn't show it, but their base morale is actually 8. Now if only R'lyeh had a highly thematic “lobotomize” buff to turn stuff mindless. Oh well. Their tentacle attack has a damage of -5 but is armor piercing. Magical, so my mages can, and will have to, lead ****tons of them.



So boys and girls, that's it for now. Next time there'll be either more derivative lovecraftian tentacle-fiction or a discussion of my pretender design. It may also have tentacles.

Last edited by jotwebe; March 29th, 2012 at 11:41 AM.. Reason: forgot the pics
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Old March 29th, 2012, 09:48 PM

Bluemage142 Bluemage142 is offline
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Introductions, early game posturing underway)



If any of you bothered to read my fluff post, you probably have a good idea what Marverni is like. If you didn't read it, you probably don't. Most people really don't know much about the Gauls, except that Julius Caesar beat them, and wrote a book about it. Hopefully, I can clear that up with a look at how the nation plays.

First, though, me. I am a new player. I've owned Dominions 3 for a year or two, and played maybe fifteen games against the AI. As I type this, I'm in my first four multiplayer games, all of them using different mods. Like Roland_Jones, I'm from SA, and no, my god isn't related to him. Unless he looks Druish.

Speaking of Druidia, that brings me right back to Marverni. Marverni is all about druids- well, druids, screaming barbarians, and guys in chainmail. Here's a look at their unit list.



12 different units, and 10 different commanders. Sort of big, isn't it? Thankfully, most of them are basically the same thing, so we can really cut that down to a few. Figure that those 12 units come from four different tribes, each of which has its own spin on the same few units.

The Tribes:

Marverni: Have access to all five types of infantry, no special abilities.
Ambibates: Cost more gold and less resources, have +1 morale/attack/defense over Marv, limited units
Carnutes: More morale and HP than Marv, axes, berserk (+2), forest survival, but less defense, cost less res and more gold than Ambis
Eponi: Have cavalry, and nothing else.

Horn Blowers:




These guys are weaker than normal infantry, but have Standards. Basically, each horn blower raises the morale of the units around it, making them far less likely to run away when, say, they see a giant caveman splatter three of their friends across the countryside. My soldiers are a lot of things, but they're only human- having these guys along can make them a good bit more effective, especially the way I intend to use them. The Carnute version is slightly better in battle, has a small amount of armor, and is slightly tougher, for a bit more gold (and less resources, oddly enough.)

Barechests:





These guys are your basic barbarian fighters. If you look at their stats, you'll see that they are actually barechested- their only defenses are their helmets and their shields. On the upside, this makes them dirt cheap. The downside is that a good sneeze will kill a barechest. These guys are more expendable than TIE fighters, and anybody who plans to use them would do well to toss hundreds of them into the fight at a time.

Some differences between the three types. Marv BCs get two javelins and a sword, which they'll throw before moving into melee. Ambis lose the javelins, but gain some morale and combat skill. Carnutes are stronger, tougher, and have higher morale, but use axes instead of swords.

Nobles:





Elite fighters. These guys are tougher, stronger, more skillful, and more motivated than the BCs are. More than that, they wear armor- a Noble has Protection 12, FOUR TIMES what a BC has. The downside of the Noble is that you can get 2-3 BCs, depending on the situation, for the cost of one Noble.

Marv and Ambi Nobles are basically the same thing- the Ambi costs 2 gold more, and has the usual skill and morale bump, but is otherwise identical. The Carnute trades 3 defense for 3 morale and 1 HP.

Ranged Units:




Marverni has precisely two options here. The Javelineer is basically a cheaper, weaker BC- less armor and defense, a spear instead of a sword, and slightly more likely to run in battle. The Slinger, on the other hand, is a proper ranged unit- even more likely to run and less armored, but able to hit from longer distances and do more damage for less cost.

NEITHER of these guys has the accuracy to match a real archer in ranged combat. They won't be hitting small groups all that hard, but get enough of them, and armies can be whittled down well enough.

Eponi Knight:



This is my only cavalry unit, and I don't really know if it's all that good. It's basically a supersized Noble on a sugar rush- same weapons, same basic stats, but bigger, faster, and a good bit harder to hit.

Boar Warrior:



WTF. Really? The Boar Warrior is Marverni's sacred unit- basically, it costs much less to maintain, and can be given a bless (which somebody else will probably explain soon enough) to make itself stronger. Unfortunately for me, it's a gigantic waste of time. For one, it's a Carnute Noble with the serial number filed off. One more HP, one more point of morale, one more point of strength, one more point of attack, and a slightly better special ability. For another, it costs 7 more gold than the Noble- I could have another Marv BC for that. Third, since it's sacred, I can only recruit a number equal to my Holy (starting dominion score + number of temples you have/5) each turn from each fort I have. Oh, wait, I can't even do that much, since the Boar Warrior can only be recruited in my capital province. Too limited, too expensive, and not good enough to be worth getting.

Commanders:

Like my units, my list of commanders is bigger than it looks. Here's how it breaks down.

Scout:



This guy is horrible in combat. He MIGHT be able to beat a chimpanzee... if he's lucky. He's also a horrible leader, since he can't lead any troops. What he is is relatively good at not being seen, which makes him perfect for seeing where (and how many) troops my enemies have. The Marverni scout has Stealth +20, making him better than the normal Scout (which has +10) at not being seen. Still not going to build any, since I have better things for my forts to be doing.

Chieftains:





These are the tribal leaders. They're basically Nobles with a bit more training, some extra morale, a relatively small Standard, and the ability to drag 40 men around. I don't plan to build any of them, for two very good reasons.

Eponi Chieftain:


This is the first reason why I'm not going to build the last three guys. He's about half again the cost of the other leaders, but is based on my (higher-stat) cavalry, gains more stats from being a commander, and can lead twice as many men. DEFINITELY worth the extra cost. Still not planning to build many, but I'll make some.

Vergobret:



Yeah, no. This guy is a bottom-level priest, and nothing else. He's cheaper than buying a priest from some random province, but a turn spent buying one of these guys is a turn that could've been spent buying a mage (who is also a priest) AND a normal priest. Thank you, no.

Sequani Stargazer:



Just looking at this guy, you wouldn't see much. He's barely a mage- only one level of Astral- not sacred, and a terrible researcher, not to mention useless in melee combat. Still, I'll be buying dozens of these guys over the game (assuming I survive). Why? Because they're dirt cheap, can search for Astral sites, can cast a few useful battle spells, and are one of the most effective force multipliers I get. More on that later.

Gutuater:



This is more like it. Half again the cost of the Stargazer, tougher in battle, better at research, a priest (making those Vegemite-guys obsolete), and access to another type of magic. Nature magic will give me a few more tricks to use- oh, and these guys also get one random level of magic. Gutuaters can give me a bit of Water, Astral, or Earth, and have a chance of reaching level 2 in Nature. I like all of this.

Druid:



This is where it's at. Let me say that again. THIS IS WHERE IT'S AT.

The Druid is my best priest. The Druid gives me two levels of both Earth and Astral magic- enough to search for Earth sites, forge a lot of good items, and cast some good spells. Druids research like two Gutuaters duct-taped to each other, and get the same W/S/E/N guaranteed random pick the Gut-eaters do. Then, for good measure, they get ANOTHER one. As if that wasn't enough, they have a 10% chance of getting a THIRD one. I could potentially get Water 3, Astral FIVE, Earth FIVE, or Nature 3 out of one of these wonderful, wonderful chaps. With enough items, I can get to half the top-end summons in the game, or turn them into absolute MONSTERS with the help of a couple dozen Stargazers.

Sure, they cost almost as much as three Gutuaters, but the value of all that magic CANNOT be underestimated. Once I have a proper economy, I would be a FOOL not to get at least one Druid a turn. Yes, I know I'm a fool, but I'm not the sort of foolish fool who foolishly fools around instead of recruiting Druids. There's a reason Marverni's tagline is "Time of Druids".

Boar Lord:



This is the commander version of the Boar Warrior, and it lost a LOT of suck along the way. It gains more strength and attack than the other commanders did, with a light sprinkling of extra HP and morale on top. If that's all it got, it'd be decent, but this guy is actually good.

Remember how the Boar Warrior was basically a Carnute Noble? Low defense, better attack? The Boar Lord has the attack of a Boar Warrior commander... and the defense skill of an Ambi commander. Four defense skill goes a long way. It also gets bigger berserk bonuses (more on that later) than anything else I have, leads as many men as the Eponi Chieftain, and is a basic priest ON TOP OF THAT.

The Boar Lord has one more advantage over the entire rest of my troop list. Reinvigoration. Figure that a Boar Warrior racks up 5 points of fatigue for every turn it's fighting. You go unconscious at 100 fatigue, so it can only fight 20 turns straight before it collapses. The Boar Lord does the exact same thing, and then loses 4 of that fatigue every turn. Theoretically, it could fight for 100 turns straight before tiring out, if such a thing were possible. With the proper equipment, this guy could become a thug- a single unit capable of taking lightly-defended provinces on its own.

Strategy:

If you look at my unit list, you'll notice a few things. I can either get a horde of cheap, weak units, or a smaller number of tougher ones. Marverni can be played either way, or even switch between the two as needed.

The Carnute versions of my units can go berserk, though, which adds another option to my list. Berserk units gain strength, protection, morale, and attack, at the expense of defenses- they hit harder, more of the time, take a hit better, and NEVER break, but get hit more often. I can go cheap horde, tough mob, or tough mob o' berserkers, and even tailor my mobs to the enemy- Carnute axes against giants, Marv swords and javelins against the undead- that sort of thing.

The addition of mages has a truly marvelous effect on this, which this post is too short to contain.

Last edited by Bluemage142; March 29th, 2012 at 10:11 PM..
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Old March 30th, 2012, 11:12 AM

LDiCesare LDiCesare is offline
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Link Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Introductions, early game posturing underway)

A few words about me.

I'm playing Pangaea, which I never used in MP.
I've been playing since dom2, and have lost several dom3 games since.
Interestingly, I won one with Helheim and totally disagree with the statement of the Helheim player in this game: "nations that can sit around and research a lot and don't necessarily have to get into an early war( ...) Helheim, on the other hand, is a highly-aggressive nation that wants to expand, expand, and expand some more, crushing everyone in its path". Just like, no. That's the reason why they get 25% forge bonus on their svartalfar in CBM 1.92 by the way. I complained in order to allow them to forge skull mentors, because that's the way Helheim got the best research in game before CBM -provided you boostrapped construction-.

I'd also like to add something to the description of Marverni units, the berserker ones.
Several Pangaea units, namely minotaurs, minotaur soldiers and maenads, also have berserking ability, so this is important for my nation too.
These units "gain strength, protection, morale, and attack, at the expense of defenses- they hit harder, more of the time, take a hit better, and NEVER break, but get hit more often.". But they also get an encumbrance penalty, so they tire faster. Which is why the carnute gets reinvig, by the way.

A few words about Pangaea now.

As I said, it's got berserking units.
Maenads.
All its other units are stealthy.
Not the naked madwomen though.
Its Pans have the special ability of being stealthy and generating unstealthy berserking naked women wherever they go provided the province has some turmoil.
Naked women = maenads.
The other special points of Pangaea include:
Maenads.
Carrion Woods. This is a high level N/D enchantment that kills everyone in my dominion to turn them into plant undead. It's really an either/or choice. Either I kill my own people to turn them into plant zombies, or I use more conventional ways to win. Heavy Death and Nature are required for this.
Maenads.
Cheap temples. 200 gold apiece only.
Micromanagement of hundreds of hundry naked women.
Blood sacrifice.
Maenad freespawn.

Also, either cheap ineffective researchers or expensive non sacred average researchers.
Finally, I may not have mentioned that Pans attract tons of naked berserking mad women that eat all the food in the land without requiring any upkeep.
Maenads.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 03:16 PM

Roland Jones Roland Jones is offline
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Introductions, early game posturing underway)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDiCesare View Post
Interestingly, I won one with Helheim and totally disagree with the statement of the Helheim player in this game: "nations that can sit around and research a lot and don't necessarily have to get into an early war( ...) Helheim, on the other hand, is a highly-aggressive nation that wants to expand, expand, and expand some more, crushing everyone in its path". Just like, no. That's the reason why they get 25% forge bonus on their svartalfar in CBM 1.92 by the way. I complained in order to allow them to forge skull mentors, because that's the way Helheim got the best research in game before CBM -provided you boostrapped construction-.
Getting the best research in the game and ruthlessly expanding early on are not mutually exclusive. See Baalz's guide for one way of doing both simultaneously.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 10:23 PM

Bluemage142 Bluemage142 is offline
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Introductions, early game posturing underway)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDiCesare View Post
But they also get an encumbrance penalty, so they tire faster. Which is why the carnute gets reinvig, by the way.
Maenads?

I very carefully didn't discuss EVERYTHING about Marverni- just what I thought would help the reader understand what I'm doing. I was going to bring that up in one of my turn posts, when it became relevant. Same with Shardphoenix's point about the Boar Lord axe.

Didn't know about them being non-cap, though- that'll be useful.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 10:41 PM

Roland Jones Roland Jones is offline
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Default Re: Multi-Player After Action Report (Introductions, early game posturing underway)

Likewise, I'm not discussing everything Helheim can do. There should be some surprises for the viewers, after all.
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