New "Game-Over" Review of SE4

ColdSteel · #1 January 14th, 2001, 01:38 AM

The Game-Over site has a new review up for SE4 at: http://www.game-over.net/review/jan2001/space/

They gave it a rating of 57%. I'm quoting part of the review here:

"The game has one glaring hole that has to disappoint everyone who plays it, even long standing fans of the series, and that is the combat system. If you're making hundreds of ships in a fleet, eventually you're going to run into another civilization and conflict might erupt, right? Wonder then the designers still have not designed an appropriate system for combat even now, 4 iterations into the series. In SE3 the combat system was a turn-based affair with a single combat capable of taking an hour or more depending on how many ships are involved. You could let the computer run through the combat more quickly, but the computer was stupid and would frequently get your ships needlessly destroyed. Play it through yourself and take a few mind-numbing hours, or let the computer run through it and lose a few ships. A difficult choice, but to a generally warlike 4x player like myself, it could easily mean the difference between victory and defeat. SE4 hasn't improved much, though they do now have a statistical combat computer available, which can figure the odds and calculate the outcome of the battle instantly. Extremely quick, but far from painless as it still can cost you ships you might not otherwise lose if you go through the gritty chore of running the combat yourself.

As I look at the progression of the series (I've seen SE2, and now played both SE3 and SE4), the designers theme seems to be add more - more units, more race characteristics, more technologies, more options, more stuff. Unless you are aware of what you are getting yourself into, this game will soundly wallop you with a frying pan of plenty. But somewhere along the line I wish they had managed to inject more fun. Continuing fans of the series will have decades of fun with this one, but people who aren't thrilled by the description of the gameplay above (and I think I've done a pretty good job of capturing the flavor if not the actual mechanics of the game), might want to look elsewhere for their 4x jollies".

So, I'm very curious what everyone here thinks about the critisisms that were expressed in the review. Valid or not?

Emperor Zodd · #2 January 14th, 2001, 01:52 AM

Well atleast he gave it a 87% for fans of the series.

Atrocities · #3 January 14th, 2001, 02:41 AM

He has hit on one issue that is of little importance to many of us. To me, this guy spends way too much time playing Reach For The Stars, and did not spend any time playing SE IV.

I have played them all, MOO thu BOTF and RFTS. SE IV, although slightly flawed, is a far better game for 4X players than we have had in the past.

------------------
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Patric Stewart as Captain Picard
UCP/TCO Ship Yards

Jubala · #4 January 14th, 2001, 03:46 AM

Combat can take forever, but I still like better then in Reach for The Stars for example. No control whatsoever, what's fun with that? Looks good, but that's about it. SE4 doesn't like as good but is much more fun.

apache · #5 January 14th, 2001, 05:07 AM

I really don't understand what this guy is complaining about. Is he upset about the time it takes to play out a battle in tactical mode or is he complaining about the way the computer auto-calcs results?
If you are going to let the computer do it, then how can you possibly expect it to do it perfectly? No automatic combat calculation system does it as well as a human, so if hes griping about that, hes a moron.
Now, if hes complaining about the time it takes in tactical mode, well what does he expect when there are a lot of ships? If he doesn't like the time it takes for him to move 50 ships across the sector, then he should do it in strategic mode. So he loses a few ships, so what? Obviously there were plenty more where they came from, and he saved himself an hour of time this way.
The bottom line is that both these issues are ridiculous. If you don't want it to take too long, then you have that option. If you don't want to lose your ships, then you have the other option. So he really has no reason to complain.

Resident Alien · #6 January 14th, 2001, 05:22 AM

Everybody will have their own take on SE4 and I respect the reviewer's opinions - he played the game enough to hold them.

The reviewer's view appears to be that:
1. SE4 is very complex, with a lot of detail.
2. SE4 takes a long time to play to a result.
3. No fast moving 3D graphic spaceships exploding.
4. Tactical resolution of combat sucks.

For 1 to 3: you either like this sort of game (and I do) or you don't.

For 4: I have no comments on this review of Tactical resolution of combat. I have never used it in SE3 or SE4 and never plan to. I am the supreme galactic warlord emperor king leader of the Empire, not a fleet admiral.

quote:
Originally posted by ColdSteel:

"The game has one glaring hole that has to disappoint everyone who plays it, even long standing fans of the series, and that is the combat system. If you're making hundreds of ships in a fleet, eventually you're going to run into another civilization and conflict might erupt, right? Wonder then the designers still have not designed an appropriate system for combat even now, 4 iterations into the series. In SE3 the combat system was a turn-based affair with a single combat capable of taking an hour or more depending on how many ships are involved. You could let the computer run through the combat more quickly, but the computer was stupid and would frequently get your ships needlessly destroyed. Play it through yourself and take a few mind-numbing hours, or let the computer run through it and lose a few ships. A difficult choice, but to a generally warlike 4x player like myself, it could easily mean the difference between victory and defeat. SE4 hasn't improved much, though they do now have a statistical combat computer available, which can figure the odds and calculate the outcome of the battle instantly. Extremely quick, but far from painless as it still can cost you ships you might not otherwise lose if you go through the gritty chore of running the combat yourself.

As I look at the progression of the series (I've seen SE2, and now played both SE3 and SE4), the designers theme seems to be add more - more units, more race characteristics, more technologies, more options, more stuff. Unless you are aware of what you are getting yourself into, this game will soundly wallop you with a frying pan of plenty. But somewhere along the line I wish they had managed to inject more fun. Continuing fans of the series will have decades of fun with this one, but people who aren't thrilled by the description of the gameplay above (and I think I've done a pretty good job of capturing the flavor if not the actual mechanics of the game), might want to look elsewhere for their 4x jollies".

So, I'm very curious what everyone here thinks about the critisisms that were expressed in the review. Valid or not?

Emperor Zodd · #7 January 14th, 2001, 06:20 AM

SE4 is a game for hard core intellectual strategy gamers. It's not for everybody. I play chess, where as my blonde girlfriend prefers checkers.
That reviewer doesn't like SE4 because he is more of a checkers man than a chess man!

Mac · #8 January 14th, 2001, 06:37 AM

Give the guy credit, he played it at least. As to the fussing about complexity, that is pretty much an each to his own. Tactical combat is at least a somewhat legit gripe if only because given the bent of his comments, he is not a strategic turn based gamer at heart. The graphics comment is, IMHO the killer. For me state of the art graphics is in the nice but hardly important Category compared to gameplay. This guy just needs to wait for Myst III, it won't do much but it will sell well and look great. I've played all the 4x and SE IV has gotten more of my precious time than BOTF or MOO2 and I really enjoyed those. RFTS vanished from my hard drive within an hour of firing this puppy up.

Instar · #9 January 14th, 2001, 06:47 AM

He must not have played it too much though, tactical combat can be speeded up with the "Fast Combat" option in the options button. I use that when I have a zillion ships to move.

Mephisto · #10 January 14th, 2001, 12:09 PM

No, he really could not have played the game much. A ship take 3 years (30 turns) to build? What the heck is he building with what?
His research needs 100 to 150 turns to complete? Mmm, might build some more research...
I don't know, either he hasn't played it, he is just a "bad" 4x player (no harm intended) or he just hit the "end turn" button.