Death scales/Gift of Natures Bounty

Arker · #1 August 23rd, 2006, 06:34 PM

Does anyone know, offhand, how the combination of death 1 and gift of natures bounty will go? Death 2? Death 3?

Am getting close to testing it with Death 1, but I bet someone here has already done it fairly thoroughly so, please, share your insight.

I've avoided playing death scales in the past, except of course with Ermor, where it doesn't hurt. This time I'm Abysia, however, and it does hurt, although not as badly as I gather it would with most nations. I took several negative scales to get a nice bless effect for my lava warriors (fire 9/nature 9) and the lava warriors rock, but the scales are definitely a pain, after my initial expansion binge slowed down I notice my income is sinking every round, and of course maintainence is not... so I'm hoping to see gift of natures bounty at least neutralise that effect, if not turn it around.

Also, sort of conceptually related, Ermor (of course) has a couple of very nasty globals up. The one that makes everyone age quickly, of course, and also the diseased air thing, so it's a double whammy. I just got gift of health up to counter it, barely in time (about 90% of my units were afflicted.) So that seems to mostly take care of it, although every turn I have several sick units, at least it's different ones each time and they aren't dying. But I'm wondering if that was the best choice. I could have dispelled their globals more quickly, then got gift up anyway at a later date, but I saved the astral gems to make nature with for gift ASAP instead. The rationale being that leaving Ermors globals in place, but defeating them as regards my own troops only with gift, would be advantageous as the other nations would still be afflicted. Of course in my mind gift was defeating them, but in fact, it's still affecting me too, just not so badly as everyone else. And I'm a little worried that by the time I find Ermor they'll have gobbled up so many AI players I won't stand a chance against them... what do you think?

shovah · #2 August 23rd, 2006, 08:44 PM

Not sure of the effects of GoNB/death but those lava warriors would do far better with n9/e9 (still deadly, higher prot and good reinvig)

Arker · #3 August 23rd, 2006, 09:29 PM

Well, for the record, GoNB is NOT enough to overcome Death 1.

I should have paid closer attention before I cast it for comparison, but population is still clearly going down every turn with it up.

Which means back to the drawing board, end of game essentially. I'm playing a rather large map and while I got a nice start, my income is still sinking, and it's already so low that I can barely maintain my army, no chance of expanding it. And my army is not sufficient to hold what I have, really, at this point.

I might well try that n9/e9 pretender if I can pull one off without taking death scales. I've run the earthmama chassis e5/n9 before with another nation and did very well.

This was the, son of the desert sun(?) - the one that summons lions in battle. Thought I'd try something different. Very cool, but if I can't figure out a way to get it without going to death scales it's just not workable on anything but a small map I guess.

You really think that e9 bless would be better on lava warriors than f9? I figured dual-wielded flaming maces would be pretty awesome, and you know what? THEY ARE

They shred anything that gets in their way mighty quick... I don't think I've ever seen knights go down that quick, and ethereal undead don't stand a chance...

Oh yeah, before you think I shouldn't have so much trouble getting this without death scales, keep in mind also that it's a map with a LOT of water, water cult is really a requirement to stand a chance with a land nation as a result, and since lava warriors are home province only I want better admin than the guard tower as well. I'd prefer the fortified city, wound up with the fortress to make it work... had disorder 2 sloth 1 heat 3 death 1... maybe disorder 2 sloth 2 would be bearable though.

Graeme Dice · #4 August 23rd, 2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Arker said:
I'd prefer the fortified city, wound up with the fortress to make it work... had disorder 2 sloth 1 heat 3 death 1... maybe disorder 2 sloth 2 would be bearable though.

The turmoil scale is the reason you couldn't afford your troops, not the death scale. A scale of death 1 might start to have a noticeable effect on your home province after about 60 turns. In your other provinces, you'll have to wait even longer before the negative effects start to creep up. On the other hand, by taking turmoil 2, you decreased your total income by almost 30% compared to order 3.

Arker · #5 August 23rd, 2006, 10:33 PM

I know the turmoil lowers income, but it should lower it to a point then stabilise. Since I had good dominion spread at the beginning, most of my provinces were already showing turmoil from it before I conquered them. My income was going down every turn, however, and so was the population. One province next to my capital was down to 310 people...

KissBlade · #6 August 23rd, 2006, 11:55 PM

Turmoil is by far the biggest income killer compared to any other scales.

Ygorl · #7 August 24th, 2006, 12:56 AM

For the record, scales of Death 1 would be 13% less income than Death 0 after 60 turns. Death 2 is 25% less, and Death 3 is 34% less.

Arker · #8 August 24th, 2006, 01:57 AM

Would it be correct to extrapolate that means about 240 turns to take income to absolute zero? If that's more or less correct it means that in a large map game where that many turns are to be expected, even death 1 is too much unless you're playing undead. Ermors themes can handle this of course, I haven't played the Ctis and Pangea undead themes enough to know if they can or not though.

I'm not sure if it's by percentage or an absolute value, but with death one and GoNB up, my lowest population province went from 320 to 310 population the next month. A rough guess would say 31 more turns to 0 pop, but that might be off depending on how it's calculated. Should have kept a tally for a few turns before I cast it to see how much it changed, but sadly didn't think of that until after. At any rate, GoNB isn't enough to reverse it, and even though it wasn't that far into the game, I was already noticing the provinces I had marked in mind for blood hunting later were swiftly falling under the 5000 mark.

Ygorl · #9 August 24th, 2006, 02:40 AM

No, it's a multiplicative effect. Each point of growth/death raises or lowers province population by 0.2% per month. Also, each point raises or lowers province income (which is directly derived from population, for most provinces) 2% per month.
So, the longer you go, the less you decrease in terms of absolute income.

As far as GoNB, I've never cast it, but I always assumed it moved your scales towards growth? In any case, give it a few turns to have an effect.

Graeme Dice · #10 August 24th, 2006, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Arker said:
I know the turmoil lowers income, but it should lower it to a point then stabilise.

Not at all. Every point of order increases your income by 7%. Every point of turmoil decreases your income by 7%. This is a constant effect that depends solely on the current order/turmoil scale in a given province.

Quote:

My income was going down every turn, however, and so was the population. One province next to my capital was down to 310 people...

Every level of the death scale reduces population by 0.2% per turn. That province likely only started with a few hundred people.