Immobile Pretenders

[Sheap]

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is the immobile pretenders, Monolith/Blood Fountain/etc. I am not sure if this is because they aren't as good, or because most discussion on how to use pretenders focuses on using them as SC's and the immobile pretenders aren't much use in that role.

That said, it does seem to me that they actually aren't that good. You have nearly zero combat potential, and you also have medium-high path cost, and you have nearly zero site-searching ability. The only advantage seems too be high dominion. But I do not see why I would take, for instance, a Monolith, instead of a Prince of Death which seems to be superior in basically every way.

Am I missing something?

[Vynd]

Well, I've never tried to play one in a MP game, but I have messed around with them in SP. You mention that they have high base dominion, that's nothing to snear at. Their base costs generally aren't that high, and the path costs aren't bad either. So it has always seemed to me that they'd be worth considering if you wanted to go for the lvl9 bless in one or two magic schools, combined with a high base dominion so you can start cranking out lots of holy troops right away.

Also, their combat potential is higher than you might think. It is possible for them to move around, using teleport or similar spells. And several of them are actually fairly effective in combat by virtue of being powerful spell-casters who are difficult to damage and/or have tons of hitpoints. I tried to kill a Sphinx once, in its capital province. Big mistake. It slaughtered my entire army without even getting a scratch.

Of course the fact that they can't move around like a normal Pretender is a huge handicap, there's no denying that. But they're not totally crippled by it. And of course there is always the challenge/wierdness/something different aspect. I can honestly say that reading in a review that you could have an immobile god helped convince me to buy Dominions II. "This," I thought, "is a game where they have everything."

[PvK]

Is it still possible to teleport immobile pretenders? Teleporting Sphinx used to give some people headaches.

Mainly I think the immobiles are low-investment options than often feature good durability.

Some also have advantages such as blood hunt bonus for the Fountain of Blood.

In combat, they can still cast spells.

They do have a certain stylishness.

One bit that has me curious is whether or not Baphomet's Desert Survival skill can ever in any situation have any effect, since he is immobile AND does not eat. Maybe it's just humor.

PvK

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by PvK:
Is it still possible to teleport immobile pretenders? Teleporting Sphinx used to give some people headaches.

Yes: Immobiles other than the Sphinx are still able to use Teleportation. The Sphinx is no longer mobile, and although his cost was reduced slightly to compensate, his TOTAL immobility leaves him rather useless as a result: Sure, he's durable...but I don't think a strategy which revolves around having your home province stormed and sieged is a good one!

Mainly I think the immobiles are low-investment options than often feature good durability.

Some immobile options also fall into the mainstream strategy list: The Marignon Baphomet is a favorite for those wishing to play the F9/S9 dual bless on flagellants.

Some also have advantages such as blood hunt bonus for the Fountain of Blood.

In combat, they can still cast spells.

Some of the more durable mobile chassis options can actually be used as SCs: I've been able to take indy provinces with little difficulty with an SC Monolith. Given that all pretenders had to be immobile in that game, the other players were at first baffled to see me in the HOF.

They do have a certain stylishness.

Some are clearly more stylish than others. The Monolith is certainly stylish. The Sacred Statue somewhat less so.

One bit that has me curious is whether or not Baphomet's Desert Survival skill can ever in any situation have any effect, since he is immobile AND does not eat. Maybe it's just humor.

You're probably right.

[Mad_Lear]

[edit] Made a comment without realizing the Sphinx couldn't teleport in Dom II...

[ June 05, 2004, 03:12: Message edited by: Mad_Lear ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Mad_Lear:
[edit] Made a comment without realizing the Sphinx couldn't teleport in Dom II...

The Sphinx USED to be able to teleport. It got nerfed.

[Cohen]

What's exactly Blood of Fountain blood hunt bonus?

[Tuna-Fish]

Originally posted by Cohen:
What's exactly Blood of Fountain blood hunt bonus?

+4 to blood magic level when bloodhunting. Combine that with the high blood level, the cheap cost, sdr and the high population of your capital (growth can easily overcome patrolling/bloodhunting losses if you turn down taxes just a little bit) You can easily have very decent blood income right from the box. Who needs SC's when you got devils?

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Tuna-Fish:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cohen:
What's exactly Blood of Fountain blood hunt bonus?

+4 to blood magic level when bloodhunting. Combine that with the high blood level, the cheap cost, sdr and the high population of your capital (growth can easily overcome patrolling/bloodhunting losses if you turn down taxes just a little bit) You can easily have very decent blood income right from the box. Who needs SC's when you got devils?

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How much, realistically, do you have to turn down the taxes for a hunting Fountain? I never tried this, actually, since I'm so wary of depleting my own capital of population...

[Teraswaerto]

My standard pretender choice is the Oracle. Plenty of points left for scales and dominion. SC capable commmanders can be summoned but there's no changing the scales you took at the beginning.

[ June 05, 2004, 11:10: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]