Proportions shell armor and ... minesweeping armor?

[PvK]

Yeah, Fryon is of course correct there - mounts can't add effect per component. Or, did you want the effectiveness to go down with ship size? I don't understand why you would want to add minesweeping to armor - what is the theory behind that?

Incidentally, upon later reflection I think Fryon was also right a long time ago, when he was criticizing the cost of the armored shells in Proportions. I think they cost too much for what they provide, and should probably also have somewhat increased structure.

PvK

Imperator Fyron

Ruler of the World
Member # 1794

posted September 06, 2003 18:26
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Mounts can not affect the number of mines swept by a component. As scale mounts make a comp larger, it effectively sweeps fewer mines (sweeping per KT goes down).
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Posts: 7763 | From: Alta Loma/Riverside, CA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged

JLS
First Lieutenant
Member # 3718

posted September 06, 2003 18:09
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Pete, we are considering adding Minesweeper support for the Human Player and you are the man to see when it comes to your Proportions Plate Armor

What are your thoughts, is it possible to attach Minesweeping abilities to Plate Armor, so as the mounts displacement scale increases so will the ships MS Ability?

If so what would the best way to address this?

Thanks, John

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, if you could somehow make a mount that only affects minesweepers and have it reduce the size...

[Fyron]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
well, if you could somehow make a mount that only affects minesweepers and have it reduce the size...

And you can. One of the patches added the ability to have mounts affect specific component families only.

[PvK]

Yeah... in Proportions, it'd need to be a reverse of the Scale Mount series... However I'm still waiting to be told what the original conceptual connection between scale-mounted shell/plate armor and minesweeping was.

PvK

[Ed Kolis]

Well in Proportions, doesn't most armor block some amount of damage per shot? So imagine using an armored ship as sort of a "brute force" minesweeper - just detonate them harmlessly against the armor.

Of course, given that mines do damage in the hundreds and armor blocks around 1-5 per shot, not counting emissive armor, I don't really see how that would make much sense anyway... unless you consider mine explosions to do their damage in the form of a huge number of tiny shrapnel projectiles, which isn't all that unreasonable...

[oleg]

I don't think EA ability works on mines. damage is calculated outside the combat.

as to the armour cost - I think shell armour could be made cheaper, but "internal" advanced armour should still be expensive at high levels.

[Suicide Junkie]

EA dosen't stack either, so even if it did work, you'd only take off 1-5 damage points (whatever the strongest surviving EA ability is)

[PvK]

Originally posted by oleg:
I don't think EA ability works on mines. damage is calculated outside the combat.

as to the armour cost - I think shell armour could be made cheaper, but "internal" advanced armour should still be expensive at high levels.

Oh, I agree the internal advanced armor costs are good. It's just the armored shells that are probably overpriced, and could stand to have a bit more structutre themselves.

I would hope that EA would apply to mine explosions.

And now that Ed mentions it, I can see how it could make sense to use armor to protect somewhat against minefields (not to sweep them) just with the EA. It would work well assuming EA would (not stack but) apply once to each mine explosion, and if mine damage were greatly reduced (I hear SJ did that in P&N and removed minesweepers, which seems like a neat change).

PvK

[JLS]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Well in Proportions, doesn't most armor block some amount of damage per shot? So imagine using an armored ship as sort of a "brute force" minesweeper - just detonate them harmlessly against the armor.

Of course, given that mines do damage in the hundreds and armor blocks around 1-5 per shot, not counting emissive armor, I don't really see how that would make much sense anyway... unless you consider mine explosions to do their damage in the form of a huge number of tiny shrapnel projectiles, which isn't all that unreasonable...

Exactly, the premise is that the larger the displacement of the vessel the greater the (scale mount) in Armor Plate that could be Installed.

If it was possible to put the (Minesweeping Ability) on the scale mount, then as the ship displacement increases then so to the amount of mines required to do damage….

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Yeah... in Proportions, it'd need to be a reverse of the Scale Mount series... However I'm still waiting to be told what the original conceptual connection between scale-mounted shell/plate armor and minesweeping was.

PvK

PVK, in regards to Mine Sweeping Abilities this is just the title for the actual se4 action and not meant literally in my presentation.

The intention is that, the amount of mines required and/or actually expended would be increased as the scale of Armor Plating is increased by the Ships Displacement.

I humbly ask, can this be done with Plate Armor, and is there any advise to actually make this happen with the CompEnhancement mounts ?

[ September 07, 2003, 15:28: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PvK]

Ok, I see. I would not try to model it indirectly by using the actual minesweeping ability. I'd just reduce mine damage as I mentioned below, to the point that the desired effect will occur naturally, also perhaps increasing the mines per sector limit and/or reducing the abilities of actual minesweepers. Try reducing mine warhead strength by a factor of ten or twenty for starters.

So as in P&N, ships will tend to get hit by mines, but fleets won't be directly annihilated by them. They may, however, tend to take a bunch of small damage hits, sometimes knocking out some important systems. Armor of all types will be a useful countermeasure, and large ships may have a natural advantage (except that if they do suffer a bridge hit or something, a more powerful unit is affected). Also, since partial damage is rounded down and ignored, you'll actually see some variety in whether any components are actually destroyed; random mine results have been requested for years, and this would actually tend to deliver it, I think. Testing required of course - I'll be curious to learn if EA works as expected against mines or not.

PvK