Counter intelligence help please!

duggold · #1 November 17th, 2000, 08:16 AM

Can someone explain how counter intelligence works? I have a number of intel centers. I encounter an enemy race and immediately select a counter intelligence operation (1-3 it doesn't matter). It tells me how long it will take to complete. However, each turn, the amount of time it takes either doesn't change or actually goes up! (I didn't lose any intel centers). What gives? The computer player is intelling me to death with planet take overs and mutinies! Help!

Doug

Mark Dey · #2 November 17th, 2000, 03:05 PM

It sounds like he's doing that. I'm interested in an answer to this too - how does counter-intel work? (does it work)?

-Mark

SirDarwin · #3 November 17th, 2000, 03:33 PM

I've had my counter-intel work. But only after making sure I had more points the the computer, and putting it all towards the one race to stop it. Think of the project as a ongoing project, because you don't want your intel guys to finish it and then forget about that race do you?

duggold · #4 November 17th, 2000, 05:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Comar:
You have to use the icon with the Alien face ( relations screen ). In there is a bar for intellegence. Click on it and you can chose the various intellegnce operations that you can do at your current research level, including counter-intellengence.

I am doing that. i have no problem with the mechanics. I just want to know why year after year, the project never seems to progress?

LintMan · #5 November 17th, 2000, 05:11 PM

Yeah, counter-intelligence is an ongoing project, so every turn it is active, it has a chance to block intelligence operations against you. I would imaging that more intelligence points spent would give a higher chance.

I'd love to know what the percentages are, but it isn't detailed in the manual.

If you have the "view all players scores" option on in the game, you can see what everyone is generating in the way of intelligence points, so you'd have an idea if you're being massively outspent.

My advice is either pump up the amount of point you're putting into counter-intel, or send a fleet and punish the computer player by destroying some of his planets. (Esp useful if you can find where his intelligence bases are and take them out.) Get nasty of you have to... research plague bombs and kamikaze some of his planets with those...he's probably unlikely to have med tech since he'll have put all his RP's into intel.

rdouglass · #6 November 17th, 2000, 05:39 PM

I thought that counter-intel was general and not pointed to specific empires. I havent had much of a chance to play a lot of my full game (probably many of you don't believe THAT) , but I remember in the demos that you specified empires in intel, but just generalized in counter-intel.

Does that mean it has changed in the full Version? (I will definitely find out this weekend!!!!)

Baron Munchausen · #7 November 17th, 2000, 09:27 PM

Duggold:

Originally, the counter-intelligence system was one-for-one against enemy projects. Well, actually there was originally NO counter-intel in SE IV! The beta-testers were not pleased, and howled until something was added.

In the first counter-intel system, you "bought" a counter-intelligence project and it destroyed one intelligence project directed against you. Because this was not working well, it was changed to a sort of "hybrid" with the old SE3 system. Now, the POINTS you spend on counter intelligence are counted against the points that your attackers are spending. So, they get "used up" preventing the other guy from making progress instead of accumulating directly. Only if you are spending MORE per turn that the other guy will you actually finish the project.

There is still a relationship between the number of counter-intel projects you are running and the number of intel projects directed against you, though. Even if you're spending more points than all the others against you, if they have more projects in the works they can still win a few.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 17 November 2000).]

duggold · #8 November 17th, 2000, 09:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Duggold:

Originally, the counter-intelligence system was one-for-one against enemy projects. Well, actually there was originally NO counter-intel in SE IV! The beta-testers were not pleased, and howled until something was added. In the first counter-intel system, you "bought" a counter-intelligence project and it destroyed one intelligence project directed against you. Because this was not working well, it was changed to a sort of "hybrid" with the old SE3 system. Now, the POINTS you spend on counter intelligence are counted against the points that your attackers are spending. So, they get "used up" preventing the other guy from making progress instead accumulating directly. Only if you are spending MORE per turn that the other guy will you actually finish the project. There is still a relationship between the number of counter-intel projects you are running and the number of intel projects directed against you, though. Even if you're spending more points that all the others against you, if they have more projects in the works they can still win a few.

Thanks for that! Definitely an area that needs to be explained in more detail. What is the best strategy in general for dealing with players who keep causing my planets to revolt? Intel projects against them? Putting lots of ships or bases at planets? (does that reduce the chance of the planet turning?)

Doug

James Sterrett · #9 November 17th, 2000, 09:44 PM

Second that... that's a *very* helpful explanation. 8)

Baron Munchausen · #10 November 17th, 2000, 09:53 PM

Well, I'm not familiar with the details of the internal formula. All I have is the terse descriptions/hint given to the beta testers with each revision and experience from playing some games. You're right, this badly needs to be documented. I really don't know if it's "one for one" or if one counter-intel can prevent more than one attack. But if so, there's a limit because even running many counter-intel operations simultaneously I've still been successfully hit by various operations.

Remember, though, that the level of the counter-intel is judged against the level of the attack. So, there is no default counter-intel against Puppet Political Parties. To stop that, you need to either use "Intelligence Sabotage" (which is quite a bit cheaper than counter-intel now that it's been changed) or just go out and pound the snot out of the offending empire -- if you can. Another solution with the full Version is to edit the Intel Operations file to add Counter-intel level 4, which would then be able to stop even Puppet Political Parties.